Why Germany's name is not France.

authun

Ad Honorem
Aug 2011
5,118
Just an advise: try to "erase" from Your head the things You know about French, Germans, France, Germany, capital. Those are modern "images".

Easier said than done, especially when, the generation before Pepin, the Mayor had more power than the King, and often, more wealth. This is the time when people like Boniface persuaded the Pope to invest authority in the King, on condition that they undertook to spread the work of the Church of course, and also that title became heriditary. From this point, Kings ruled by the authority of God, via the Pope of course, a man who had the power to excommunicate the King and thereby remove his authority, In fact, Pepin the Short had been Mayor of the Palace but managed to depose the King, Childeric III, carefully coordinated with the nod from the Pope. This pivotal moment shaped european kingdoms and politics for the next 800 years
 
Oct 2013
14,075
Europix
Easier said than done, especially when, the generation before Pepin, the Mayor had more power than the King, and often, more wealth. This is the time when people like Boniface persuaded the Pope to invest authority in the King, on condition that they undertook to spread the work of the Church of course, and also that title became heriditary. From this point, Kings ruled by the authority of God, via the Pope of course, a man who had the power to excommunicate the King and thereby remove his authority, In fact, Pepin the Short had been Mayor of the Palace but managed to depose the King, Childeric III, carefully coordinated with the nod from the Pope. This pivotal moment shaped european kingdoms and politics for the next 800 years
True.

I had in mind the "capital" for example (I'm responding to some questions of Slavon here).

There wasn't a capital, not in the way latter was. The court, the capital was were the king was. It was (for a period) a "peripatetic" ruling. HRE had that for a period too.

Also, the initial Frank realm was something to be discovered and to be conquered. So it's "center", it's "peripheral" moved, changed.

So, if we keep in mind the "fluidity" existing at the time, opposed to today's "stability" I believe we understand easier those pesti Franks.
 
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authun

Ad Honorem
Aug 2011
5,118
I had in mind the "capital" for example (I'm responding to some questions of Slavon here).
That's what I had in mind when I mentioned the Capitulare de Villis, the royal estates. Charlemagne regularised the earlier missi dominici and organised the missatica, or inspection circuits, meant to be four months in every year, but often less frequent.

Mostly histories talk of kings and their royal household but the change from merovingian to caroligian frankia ushered in many changes, particularly the crown, passing from king to mayor.

Missus dominicus - Wikipedia
 
Jan 2014
999
Rus
Just an advise: try to "erase" from Your head the things You know about French, Germans, France, Germany, capital. Those are modern "images".

If You aproach all that period of time without the modern things You know, I believe You will understand easier everything.

Just my two cents worth ....
Why do you write it for me, but not the man, which wrote:

Paris has been the capital for 260 years before and 1,175 years since.
 
Oct 2013
14,075
Europix
Why do you write it for me, but not the man, which wrote:
Because You started the discussion, You are interested in knowing more about, You ask a lot of questions (and I like most of them: good questions!).

So I thought I'd share my aproach: I always try to forget the "today" when looking at "yesterday". It helps me in understanding. (I think ....)
 
Jan 2014
999
Rus
Again you need to appreciate moving with the times rather than be fixed on such an absolute position.

Clovis made Paris his capital, and it stayed that way from 508–768, over 200 years.

The only reason Charlemagne moved the capital from Paris to Aahen was more strategic than anything else, if you look at Charlemagne's campaigns its easy to understand why, Charlemagne had spent his Kingship bringing Germania and the Saxons under his rule, it was because of Charlemagne that the Franks acquired East Francia.

Staging this campaign he moved the capital into a more central position between his new lands, you'll note that when Francia was divided among the three Francia's West, East and Middle that the West Frankish capital (the original Frankish Kingdom) reverted straight back to Paris in 843 AD .......... where its remained so to this day.

Aahen was not even the capital for 100 years while Paris has been the capital for 260 years before and 1,175 years since.

I don't think you can really compare to be frank (no pun intended).
Thanks. I read know about times after Clovis in Wiki. Sure Paris wasnt capital then (see my new topic). But looks like center of gravity of state really located in Norht-East France (modern).
 
Jan 2014
999
Rus
I had in mind the "capital" for example (I'm responding to some questions of Slavon here).

There wasn't a capital, not in the way latter was. The court, the capital was were the king was. It was (for a period) a "peripatetic" ruling. HRE had that for a period too.

Also, the initial Frank realm was something to be discovered and to be conquered. So it's "center", it's "peripheral" moved, changed.

So, if we keep in mind the "fluidity" existing at the time, opposed to today's "stability" I believe we understand easier those pesti Franks.
So they were not states from modern point of view. They were rather domains/possesions.

Appearence of real capital is a sign of appearence of state.

I opened the new topic about appearing real capital in France
 
Oct 2013
14,075
Europix
So they were not states from modern point of view. They were rather domains/possesions. ...
I think it's something like that. France became a centralised state later. Germany much later.

... Appearence of real capital is a sign of appearence of state. ...
Not necessarily. A "real capital" doesn't mean necessarily a fixed location, as often is (like in ancient Rome, or Moscow, Paris). There were cases of states where "capital" wasn't a geographic point (a particular city) but the "capital" was the king and it's court/administration, wherever he happened to be. It was the case for a period for the Franks, for the Germans, for Ethiopians.

...I opened the new topic about appearing real capital in France
See You there, then ;)