Why is Henry VII not regarded by the Welsh as a hero

GogLais

Ad Honorem
Sep 2013
5,395
Wirral
#11
Not too sure about that? Translating the Bible into any vernacular other than Latin or Greek was strictly frowned upon by both "The Holy See" or ruling monarchs during the 15th or 16th Centuries. This act would have been seen as heretical by the Pope and Holy roman Emperor alike two parties whom Henry needed to court in order secure and legitimise his position as English Monarch considering his slightly dubious claim.
Sorry, I was thinking of the Tudors generally and their effect on Wales. The translation was in QEI’s time.
 
Likes: Corbulo
Jun 2017
338
maine
#12
From what I've read, he was popular with the gentry because he enriched them. However, he wasn't so popular with the majority of the people because he did nothing for them and was happy to leave them as 2nd class citizens. His son (Henry VIII) was even worse: he outlawed the Welsh language and forbade any Welsh speaker from holding office.
 

MAGolding

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
2,840
Chalfont, Pennsylvania
#13
Wales was represented on the Tudor royal arms, because Henry VII and his dynasty were of Welsh descent. When the first Stuart ascended to the English throne he replaced the Welsh dragon with the Scottish unicorn.
Use correct terminology.

The dragon was not in the Tudor royal arms. A coat of arms consists only of what is on the shield, lozenge, roundel, cartouche, banner, or surcoat (a literal coat of arms in that case). The dragon was used as a supporter of the coat of arms, and thus counts as a heraldic accessory and part of the full achievement of arms that includes the coat of arms, helmet, torse or wreath, mantling, crest, supporters, compartment, motto, etc., etc., etc.

Since only a fool would not want to have a heraldic achievement, and since it is relatively easy and within reach to achieve that compared to becoming a billionaire or winning a Nobel Prize, etc., it is proper to know the basics of heraldry.

Use correct terminology.
 

GogLais

Ad Honorem
Sep 2013
5,395
Wirral
#14
From what I've read, he was popular with the gentry because he enriched them. However, he wasn't so popular with the majority of the people because he did nothing for them and was happy to leave them as 2nd class citizens. His son (Henry VIII) was even worse: he outlawed the Welsh language and forbade any Welsh speaker from holding office.
As far as I know the use of Welsh was banned in courts and other official situations and as a result the Welsh squires and aristocracy became Anglicised. However, the vast majority of the population remained monoglot Welsh speaking for several century afterwards.
 
Jun 2017
338
maine
#15
As far as I know the use of Welsh was banned in courts and other official situations and as a result the Welsh squires and aristocracy became Anglicised. However, the vast majority of the population remained monoglot Welsh speaking for several century afterwards.
I agree. Once I worked for a Welshman in London who, when I expressed surprise that he spoke Welsh as well as English, replied "no, I speak English as well as Welsh".:)
 
Jul 2019
285
New Jersey
#16
I would add that the early Tudors were very good for Wales indeed. It was Henry VIII who enfranchised Wales in Parliament, granting each Welsh county one Knight of the Shire and one Burgess for each enfranchised borough.
 

betgo

Ad Honorem
Jul 2011
6,211
#17
Elizabeth I authorized the translation of the Bible into Welsh. The service was still in English though. That is one reason Methodism became the predominant religion of Wales. The Methodists had their service in Welsh.
 

GogLais

Ad Honorem
Sep 2013
5,395
Wirral
#18
Elizabeth I authorized the translation of the Bible into Welsh. The service was still in English though. That is one reason Methodism became the predominant religion of Wales. The Methodists had their service in Welsh.
I’ve done a little bit of Googling. As far as I can tell yes, the services were in English (Act of Uniformity). I wonder if that means that readings were also in English. I’ve also found out that Morgan discarded South Walian words in some instances and replaced them with their Northern equivalents - Yes!
 

Larrey

Ad Honorem
Sep 2011
5,566
#19
I would add that the early Tudors were very good for Wales indeed. It was Henry VIII who enfranchised Wales in Parliament, granting each Welsh county one Knight of the Shire and one Burgess for each enfranchised borough.
Kind of dwarfed by the problem of effectively banning the language:
BBC Wales - History - Themes - Welsh language: The Tudors

The Welsh did benefit to a limited extent from Henry VII's accession to the throne. Some of the harsher anti-Welsh clauses of penal laws passed following Glyndwr's uprising were repealed.

Yet any romantic notions of the Welsh returning to their former state of political and cultural independence evaporated with the Act of Union of 1536. Passed by Henry's son Henry VIII, the act meant Wales was legally incorporated into England.

The act also contained the infamous language clause, which banned Welsh monoglot speakers from public office. English became the sole official language, essential for the ruling class in Wales, while knowledge of Welsh became at best an option, at worst an embarrassment.
 
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