Why is Henry VII not regarded by the Welsh as a hero

Linschoten

Ad Honoris
Aug 2010
16,225
Welsh Marches
It’s an interesting thing that despite this and being on England’s doorstep, Welsh has survived much better than the other Celtic languages.
It was actually misleading to say that the Welsh language was 'effectively banned', what the language clause laid down was that English was to be the language used in official business, which meant that monoglot Welsh-speakers were effectively excluded from public office; but I wonder how many people who aspired to such a career would have been monoglot in any case? This didn't prevent Welsh from being widely used as a language for daily communication and indeed a language of culture (for it is no rustic patois). The western regions of Wales where it best survived were rural and well insulated from English influences for a long time after that; having live there for more than a few years, it still seems remote from England!
 
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Larrey

Ad Honorem
Sep 2011
5,922
It’s an interesting thing that despite this and being on England’s doorstep, Welsh has survived much better than the other Celtic languages.
That's what Protestantism and the Bible in the vernacular will tend to do. The Irish are Catholics to the detriment of Gaelic in that respect. (By comparison the Scots have always been a mixed bunch linguistically. Same thing with the Bretons.)
 

GogLais

Ad Honorem
Sep 2013
5,499
Wirral
That's what Protestantism and the Bible in the vernacular will tend to do. The Irish are Catholics to the detriment of Gaelic in that respect.
Good point, I hadn’t thought it through to that conclusion.
 

Larrey

Ad Honorem
Sep 2011
5,922
Good point, I hadn’t thought it through to that conclusion.
If Sweden hadn't gone Lutheran, with Swedish codified as a literary language through the bible, it has seriously been suggested modern Swedish could well have developed into a weird form of low-German.

Finland wasn't independent, and Finnish was equally hampered as Welsh by not being a recognized language of administration, but the bible in Finnish still meant the language was formalized and codified for religious use.
 
Feb 2017
256
Devon, UK
Good point, I hadn’t thought it through to that conclusion.
The modern survival of Welsh has much to do with Methodism, there was still a sufficient critical mass of Welsh speakers for non conformists to preach to in Welsh. Conversely by the time Methodism came to Cornwall, Cornish had all but been wiped out, largely thanks to the reformation and in particular Edward VI's brutal impostion of the Book of Common Prayer.
 

GogLais

Ad Honorem
Sep 2013
5,499
Wirral
The modern survival of Welsh has much to do with Methodism, there was still a sufficient critical mass of Welsh speakers for non conformists to preach to in Welsh. Conversely by the time Methodism came to Cornwall, Cornish had all but been wiped out, largely thanks to the reformation and in particular Edward VI's brutal impostion of the Book of Common Prayer.
One day I’ll gear myself up to find out the difference between Wesleyan and Calvinist Methodism. In the 1960s my family were one of the last few attending the local CM chapel, now demolished.
 

Linschoten

Ad Honoris
Aug 2010
16,225
Welsh Marches
As was pointed
The modern survival of Welsh has much to do with Methodism, there was still a sufficient critical mass of Welsh speakers for non conformists to preach to in Welsh. Conversely by the time Methodism came to Cornwall, Cornish had all but been wiped out, largely thanks to the reformation and in particular Edward VI's brutal impostion of the Book of Common Prayer.
As was pointed out at the time, the services in English replaced services in Latin which the Cornish were even less able to understand. :)
 

Linschoten

Ad Honoris
Aug 2010
16,225
Welsh Marches
One day I’ll gear myself up to find out the difference between Wesleyan and Calvinist Methodism. In the 1960s my family were one of the last few attending the local CM chapel, now demolished.
For one thing, Wesley was a determined opponent of the crazy Calvinist doctrine of predestination.
 
Feb 2017
256
Devon, UK
As was pointed out at the time, the services in English replaced services in Latin which the Cornish were even less able to understand. :)
The Latin which linked them to a wider Christian communion than the English of the courts and their feudal superiors.