Why Isn't Taiwain part of the PRC?

heylouis

Ad Honorem
Apr 2013
6,563
China
okay, too much interferences.

so little information on real taiwan was shown. too much meaningless red herrings was around here.

some time ago, some argued that if taiwan people supported kmt, that means they are on unity, if they supported ddp, that means they are on independence.
and they argue since Ms cai was elected, that means taiwan people want independence, which must prevail.

really?
so what is the situation now? it is already a consensus that there is only one "party" in taiwan now, that is "讨厌民进党" "despise ddp party". what that even means?
 

heylouis

Ad Honorem
Apr 2013
6,563
China

summary and brief translation of the video.
1. newspoll made by current taiwan administration or pro-current-administration medias generally not trustable
2. taiwan youngs do not want to join armies, no matter it is claimed to defend taiwan or something else
3. few would defend an claimed independent taiwan


-------------------------
A. don't argue with me the video is in chinese, it represents chinese view blabla. the video is created by taiwan media.
B. don't argue with me the video represents those pro-mainland ONLY, there are famous champion of the greens inside. the view point is collected with no bias on "mainland is best"
 
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heylouis

Ad Honorem
Apr 2013
6,563
China
and the abuser and knowledgeless guys should stop their fantasy.
don't know a ABC, but pretend to be specialist, really ugly.
you want facts, you will be flooded by facts.
yes, i will lecturing you now.


this is the so claimed "taiwan independence", "taiwan nation", "taiwan citzen" 's flag



this is those who-on-unity's flag
 

Baldtastic

Ad Honorem
Aug 2009
5,483
Londinium
It is, except it choses to redefine words and concepts in such a fashion that they no longer mean what was intended by the signatories.

It's a common trick of totalitarian regimes. The Soviets did the same. Language tends to be if not the first casualty, then at least one of the most worked-over.

The Chinese are going to have to sort themselves out of that linguistic and conceptual quagmire eventually, but it will require the demise of the CCP first.
Very true. We've seen it here, in this thread, and in 1984 with double speak. If you don't like a definition then change the meaning of the word and repeat ad nauseum
 
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heylouis

Ad Honorem
Apr 2013
6,563
China
The world doesn't equal governments. Do you see the distinction?

In any case, if the ROC (even as a part of PRC) decides to enact self determination then the PRC is obliged, under the UN Charter, to allow this.
A. The world doesn't equal governments
B. UN Charter


1. UN resolutions disacknowledge taiwan as a Trust or non-self-governing territory. UN resolution in zero sources said that a region outside the list of Trust or non-self-governing territories is granted to gain independence. UN resolution clearly stated "self-determination" "shall not be construed as authorizing or encouraging any action which would dismember or impair, totally or in part, the territorial integrity or political unity of sovereign and independent States ".
OHCHR | Vienna Declaration and Programme of Action
take a hell look at the logo there, how large the "Unite Nations" are, stop your pathetic lie that the link is not UN. if you don't know what OHCHR is, drop your talks on UN.
you till now constantly claim un.org sources as "not UN sources", which behavior is pity.

2. UN is basically a collective of governments. when you say the world does not equal to governments, and then you cite UN, you are in psycho disorder

3. you are incapable to show direct sources on taiwan. funny story for your constant replies.
 

Baldtastic

Ad Honorem
Aug 2009
5,483
Londinium
A. The world doesn't equal governments
B. UN Charter


1. UN resolutions disacknowledge taiwan as a Trust or non-self-governing territory. UN resolution in zero sources said that a region outside the list of Trust or non-self-governing territories is granted to gain independence. UN resolution clearly stated "self-determination" "shall not be construed as authorizing or encouraging any action which would dismember or impair, totally or in part, the territorial integrity or political unity of sovereign and independent States ".
OHCHR | Vienna Declaration and Programme of Action
take a hell look at the logo there, how large the "Unite Nations" are, stop your pathetic lie that the link is not UN. if you don't know what OHCHR is, drop your talks on UN.
you till now constantly claim un.org sources as "not UN sources", which behavior is pity.

2. UN is basically a collective of governments. when you say the world does not equal to governments, and then you cite UN, you are in psycho disorder

3. you are incapable to show direct sources on taiwan. funny story for your constant replies.
All I'm saying is that "the world" and "the governments of the world" aren't the same thing. Its the same as how a government and the people of that nation aren't the same thing. Very, very simple.

Once again, you're calling me a liar - I've not lied once. I'm not even saying anything, just repeating a UN Charter and confirming that the PRC has agreed to what is contained within.

It makes no difference, absolutely none, If Taiwan is or is not recognized as a nation by the UN. The PRC and all UN signatories recognize the right to self determination of peoples. Do you not understand this?

That one sentence seems very hard for you to grasp, unlike the PRC who have already agreed to it - hence their signature. If you have an issue with your government signing the UN Charter, go protest in Tiananmen square.

I've asked you many, many times to provide the text that states self determination is trumped by national integrity. You have not, not once.

Is there anything in those 2 links that contravene the UN charter and declaration of human rights regarding self determination of people's?
I asked you to provide the quote from your own links that would counter the right to self determination, as per my previous links and points made. You have not.
Your links have not shown anything to contradict this. .
You provided a source that appears to say a nation has the right to integrity but none that said it supersedes self determination. Please provide that specific clause stating integrity of a nation overrides self determination. I've asked for this at least twice now and you continue to avoid it..
There are more examples.
 

heylouis

Ad Honorem
Apr 2013
6,563
China
...
for example ...
i claim nothing "if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a goose. "

there are laws, international recognition, to show taiwan is not legally independence, its printed papers hence are illegal.
using illegal papers to prove anything perhaps that is something only you will do.

plus, you are shown what a real "taiwan citzens" flag is. remember it.
don't bluffing on the flag, passport anymore.

you so called taiwan citizen papers are not even acknowledged by the pro-independence taiwan guys.
don't even know what you argue for
 

heylouis

Ad Honorem
Apr 2013
6,563
China
...
I've asked you many, many times to provide the text that states self determination is trumped by national integrity. You have not, not once.
the whole self-determination things isn't on whether china signed it (which was signed by china anyway), but on whether it is related with an assumed given right of independence, even blind and deaf could understand this essence.
Baldtastic said:
(Baldtastic claimed heylouis said:. ) self-determination is overridden by a nations sovereign integrity, as you previously claimed.
fact
(heylouis actually said)i provided enough sources that self-determination cannot override the integrity of a nation
do you now acknowledge you made up that i said "self-determination is overridden by a nations sovereign integrity"