Why Pakistan chose Urdu over Persian as it's National Language ?

Status
Closed
Jan 2019
41
Earth
#1
Considering Persian was the language of the people(Elites) In Indus valley for over 1000 years adopted by various Muslim empires and Sikh empire as language of court while urdu was basically Hindi/Hindustani with mash of Arbo-persian lone words by Turks to communicate with Locals in UP+Haryana. (urdu means army camp in Turkish)


As pakistan wanted to build it's own identity away of Indian one I don't understand choosingan Indian version of Hindi over prestigious dari as their national language.
 
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Mar 2019
1,535
KL
#2
sanskrit was the lingua franca before persian was imposed during foreign rule, in my opinion if babur had not displaced dehli sultanate and repersianised the bureaucracy, it eventually would have led to hindi/urdu start dominating the court language again, as soon as persian patronage ended, so did the era of persian language in india, the language was solely patronised by the royalty and couldn't have survived without that patronage, even though urdu has been heavily persianised due to such a long period, yet it maintains its prakrit integrity which just shows that the language was powerful enough to sustain a long period of persian influence. Even during such a royal patronage, the prakrit and sanskrit literature outnumbered the persian literature by a huge margin, not to mention the various vernacular language literature from south india such as kannada etc.

persian is not an official language simply because it is an alien language to majority of pakistanis, the afghans even during the pre persian period were used to indo aryan languages like gandhari, sanskrit so indo aryan languages enjoyed quite a lot of history even in regions which speak pushto today.

regards
 
Last edited:
Jan 2019
41
Earth
#3
sanskrit was the lingua franca before persian was imposed during foreign rule, in my opinion if babur had not displaced dehli sultanate and repersianised the bureaucracy, it eventually would have led to hindi/urdu start dominating the court language again, as soon as persian patronage ended, so did the era of persian language in india, the language was solely patronised by the royalty and couldn't have survived without that patronage, even though urdu has been heavily persianised due to such a long period, yet it maintains its prakrit integrity which just shows that the language was powerful enough to sustain a long period of persian influence. Even during such a royal patronage, the prakrit and sanskrit literature outnumbered the persian literature by a huge margin, not to mention the various vernacular language literature from south india such as kannada etc.

persian is not an official language simply because it is an alien language to majority of pakistanis, the afghans even during the pre persian period were used to indo aryan languages like gandhari, sanskrit so indo aryan languages enjoyed quite a lot of history even in regions which speak pushto today.

regards
Gandhari were Indo-Aryan not Irani as far as i know. And Almost 25% of Pakistan is Iranic and Person was used by even sikh empire till 18th century shows persian wasnt an alien language to 25%Iranics +45% Punjabis. I know some punjabi from pakistan who have living grand parents who can speak Person like Native iranians.
 
Mar 2019
1,535
KL
#4
Gandhari were Indo-Aryan not Irani as far as i know. And Almost 25% of Pakistan is Iranic and Person was used by even sikh empire till 18th century shows persian wasnt an alien language to 25%Iranics +45% Punjabis. I know some punjabi from pakistan who have living grand parents who can speak Person like Native iranians.
im not sure about sikh empire, but lets take an example of hyderabad deccan which ousted persian and adopted urdu as an official language.

Hyderabad State - Wikipedia

awadh state

Oudh State - Wikipedia

mughal empire, later made urdu official as well

Mughal Empire - Wikipedia

as i said, urdu eventually ousted persian from the courts, it would have happened sooner if dehli sultanate had not been replaced with babur.

regards
 
Jan 2019
41
Earth
#5
im not sure about sikh empire, but lets take an example of hyderabad deccan which ousted persian and adopted urdu as an official language.

Hyderabad State - Wikipedia

awadh state

Oudh State - Wikipedia

mughal empire, later made urdu official as well

Mughal Empire - Wikipedia

as i said, urdu eventually ousted persian from the courts, it would have happened sooner if dehli sultanate had not been replaced with babur.

regards
We are discussing Indus valley, a region next to Iran not Deccan.
 

Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
4,698
India
#8
Considering Persian was the language of the people(Elites) In Indus valley for over 1000 years adopted by various Muslim empires and Sikh empire as language of court while urdu was basically Hindi/Hindustani with mash of Arbo-persian lone words by Turks to communicate with Locals in UP+Haryana. (urdu means army camp in Turkish)


As pakistan wanted to build it's own identity away of Indian one I don't understand choosingan Indian version of Hindi over prestigious dari as their national language.
Eastern Pakistan speaks Indo-Aryan languages aka Punjabi, Sindhi Seraiki and Hindko languages, even erstwhile Gandhara until Pashtuns settled in Gandhara after 10th century. Persian was brought to India by Turkic invaders. Urdu is based on Khariboli dialect spoken around Delhi and it was first invented as a pidgin language of poets and musicians during Mughal Emperor Shah Jehan's time and named as Zaban e Urdu e mualla, here Urdu means Camp (The Mughal court) not the troops.

Pakistan chose Urdu because of various regions, they Urdu as the legacy of Mughal Empire, the United Provinces elites controlled Pakistan movement so their mother tongue ended up as Pakistan's national language. Other main reason was the Hindi-Urdu dispute in 1800s, that made Urdu strongly associated with Muslim identity even among Muslims didn't speak Urdu as their mother tongue particularly Punjabis, although Sindhi and Bengali Muslims started resenting Urdu after the creation of Pakistan.
 
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Devdas

Ad Honorem
Apr 2015
4,698
India
#9
im not sure about sikh empire, but lets take an example of hyderabad deccan which ousted persian and adopted urdu as an official language.

Hyderabad State - Wikipedia

awadh state

Oudh State - Wikipedia

mughal empire, later made urdu official as well

Mughal Empire - Wikipedia

as i said, urdu eventually ousted persian from the courts, it would have happened sooner if dehli sultanate had not been replaced with babur.

regards
That's true, initially that all Muslim empires used Persian, the switch to Urdu was done in last days of Mughal Empire. Although many Muslim elite still saw Urdu with disgust, saw Persian as classy but when Hindu started a language movement in favor of Hindi after 1850s, they too start backing Urdu. Also, Muslim in Andhra Pradesh, Telangana, Karnataka and parts of Northern Tamil Nadu speak Deccani variant of Urdu as their mother tongue.

Urdu didn't shape well until the time of Shah Jehan, the third Mughal emperor. The Lodhis who ruled before Mughals were Afghans by ancestry. Babur himself spoke Chaghtai Turkish.
 
Mar 2019
1,535
KL
#10
in my opinion i dont think that urdu was ''invented'' any where, its just that in the mughal courts the prakrit language adopted large persian vocabulary due to official persian vocabulary used in the mughal courts, as urdu replaced persian language, it retained large court vocabulary from the mughal/ islamic ruling periods.

regards
 
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Closed