Why Pakistan chose Urdu over Persian as it's National Language ?

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Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,648
New Delhi, India
Did I ever say Urdu was Iranic language? lmao, Urdu is an Indo-Aryan and part of the Indo-European family.
Abaseen, even Turkish and Iranian are IE languages. The semitic languages are different. But even there, there has been mixing. For example, Malik Mot in Judaism and Mrityu in Sanskrit (Maut in Urdu).

"marte haiñ aarzū meñ marne kī, maut aatī hai par nahīñ aatī ." (Mirza Ghalib)
 

Aupmanyav

Ad Honorem
Jun 2014
5,648
New Delhi, India
I don't believe so, It is more of a problem with Muslims, since they seek to hide their low caste origins.
Kandal, this may be construed as a racist post. Please don't do that. People from all castes in Hinduism converted (or were forced to convert) to Islam. The caste names in Kashmir, Koul, Dar, Kichlu, even Bhat and Pandit are examples of that. Even Allama Iqbal and Nawaz Sharif had/have Hindu origins. Have not checked about General Bajwa, but note, we have Bajwas among Hindus too.
 
Likes: Abaseen
Aug 2019
264
United States
Abaseen, even Turkish and Iranian are IE languages. The semitic languages are different. But even there, there has been mixing. For example, Malik Mot in Judaism and Mrityu in Sanskrit (Maut in Urdu).

"marte haiñ aarzū meñ marne kī, maut aatī hai par nahīñ aatī ." (Mirza Ghalib)
Turkic languages are not Indo-European, they constitute their own language family.
 
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kandal

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
2,767
USA
Nope. Casteism is central to Hinduism, caste don't matter in an Islamic society. Muslims can pray in the same mosque shoulder to shoulder regardless of color or caste.
What you say is all true, about all Muslims praying in the same mosque, caste is not central to Islam etc., but caste matters a lot to South Asian Muslims. It is also based on skin color, and fabricated origins. Muslims have a caste system that parallels that of Hindus, though not as rigid.
 
Aug 2019
264
United States
What you say is all true, about all Muslims praying in the same mosque, caste is not central to Islam etc., but caste matters a lot to South Asian Muslims. It is also based on skin color, and fabricated origins. Muslims have a caste system that parallels that of Hindus.
It is not equivalent to the Hindu caste system at all, it's much weaker and a less rigid "system" in fact it's dying out as it is antithetical to Islam.
 

kandal

Ad Honorem
Aug 2015
2,767
USA
Kandal, this may be construed as a racist post. Please don't do that. People from all castes in Hinduism converted (or were forced to convert) to Islam. The caste names in Kashmir, Koul, Dar, Kichlu, even Bhat and Pandit are examples of that. Even Allama Iqbal and Nawaz Sharif had/have Hindu origins. Have not checked about General Bajwa, but note, we have Bajwas among Hindus too.
There is nothing racist here. It is a fact of history. Not all Muslims came from lower castes, but great majority did (from artisan castes). Here is a break down of the South Asian caste system among Muslims:

The highest category among Muslims is called Ashraf (honorable). They claim alleged foreign ancestry and remain mostly endogamous (marry only from within) to preserve the purity of lineage.

1. The highest among the Ashraf are Sayyids, who claim descent from the Prophet himself through his daughter Fatima. They are divided into numerous lineages going back to Hasan, Husain, or various Sayyid saints.

2. The second category of Ashraf is Shaikhs (scholars), also claiming descent from Arabs. Among these the Ansari (helper) claim descent from those Arabs who gave aid and shelter to Mohammed and his friends. Other Shaikhs include the Siddiqis, Alvis and Farukis, who claim descent from those who accompanied Muhammed when he migrated from Mecca to Medina.

3. The third and fourth categories of Ashraf consist of Mughals and Pathans. Since they are about equal in status, they are grouped together here. Mughals are supposed to be descended from invaders from Central Asia such as Uzbeks, Tajiks, Turkomens and Qizibalsh. Pathans claim descent from Afghan royalty and are divided into Yusufsai, Lodi, Ghouri, Kakar and many others.

Next come Artisan castes who cannot easily claim foreign origin and are considered as converts from Hindus; they are thought to retain many Hindu practices. Some of them in the Uttar Pradesh are Julaha (weaver), Kumhar (potter), Nai (barber, who also circumcises), Dhobi (washerman), Teli (oil presser) and Faqir (holy man, tomb keeper, or beggar); also marriage broker, innkeeper and herdman.

Last come Muslim castes that are essentially untouchable. The Bhangis (sweepers) traditionally could not enter mosques and not preferred to eat with upper Muslim castes. But in general among Muslims untouchable status is determined more by occupation than inherited ritual pollution.

- I got this info. from the book: Clarence Maloney: Peoples of South Asia
 
Likes: ksk
Aug 2019
264
United States
There is nothing racist here. It is a fact of history. Not all Muslims came from lower castes, but great majority did (from artisan castes). Here is a break down of the South Asian caste system among Muslims:

The highest category among Muslims is called Ashraf (honorable). They claim alleged foreign ancestry and remain mostly endogamous (marry only from within) to preserve the purity of lineage.

1. The highest among the Ashraf are Sayyids, who claim descent from the Prophet himself through his daughter Fatima. They are divided into numerous lineages going back to Hasan, Husain, or various Sayyid saints.

2. The second category of Ashraf is Shaikhs (scholars), also claiming descent from Arabs. Among these the Ansari (helper) claim descent from those Arabs who gave aid and shelter to Mohammed and his friends. Other Shaikhs include the Siddiqis, Alvis and Farukis, who claim descent from those who accompanied Muhammed when he migrated from Mecca to Medina.

3. The third and fourth categories of Ashraf consist of Mughals and Pathans. Since they are about equal in status, they are grouped together here. Mughals are supposed to be descended from invaders from Central Asia such as Uzbeks, Tajiks, Turkomens and Qizibalsh. Pathans claim descent from Afghan royalty and are divided into Yusufsai, Lodi, Ghouri, Kakar and many others.

Next come Artisan castes who cannot easily claim foreign origin and are considered as converts from Hindus; they are thought to retain many Hindu practices. Some of them in the Uttar Pradesh are Julaha (weaver), Kumhar (potter), Nai (barber, who also circumcises), Dhobi (washerman), Teli (oil presser) and Faqir (holy man, tomb keeper, or beggar); also marriage broker, innkeeper and herdman.

Last come Muslim castes that are essentially untouchable. The Bhangis (sweepers) traditionally could not enter mosques and not preferred to eat with upper Muslim castes. But in general among Muslims untouchable status is determined more by occupation than inherited ritual pollution.

- I got this info. from the book: Clarence Maloney: Peoples of South Asia
This is all news to me, having lived in Pakistan I've never observed such a system, Clarence Maloney needs to put out a 2019 edition :lol:
 
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