Why Round Shots are ... Round

Sep 2014
1,181
Queens, NYC
#11
"Breech-loading".

The sequence seems to have been-13th to 14th century-muzzle loading
15th century-breech loading
16th century to mid-19th century-muzzle loading for most guns, certainly for mid-size to large guns; breech loading for some very small guns.

As pointed out, available technology caused changes.




































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Apr 2018
279
USA
#12
I believe that guns first appears on land, than were moved to sea- so limited space on ship is of less important factor. May be the fact, that first guns on ship/fortress was swivel guns/ fixed mount guns (due to its low caliber/recoil)? Easy reloading definitely the
main advantage of breach loading. But my question is remains: Why the story of guns STARTED from breach-loading?
I don't know for sure. But there might be some other situations where reloading a cannon in a tight space was important on land as well. For instance, a problem with many late medieval fortifications when gunpowder weapons started to be introduced is that medieval walls and towers tended to be somewhat thin and really weren't designed to be able to fit cannons on them. Or you start to see small artillery peices mounted on mantlets or inside armored wagons.



Henry VIII's experimental shield guns were apparently also designed to be breach loaders. Which makes sense given how the shield might get in the way if it was supposed to be loaded from the muzzle.

 
Dec 2018
67
Singapore
#13
"Breech-loading".

The sequence seems to have been-13th to 14th century-muzzle loading...'
Interesting information. Could you please provide reference to documents to confirm that in 13-14 CE the breach-loaders have not been used? This will change the subject of discussion.

I don't know for sure. But there might be some other situations where reloading a cannon in a tight space was important on land as well. For instance, a problem with many late medieval fortifications when gunpowder weapons started to be introduced is that medieval walls and towers tended to be somewhat thin and really weren't designed to be able to fit cannons on them. Or you start to see small artillery peices mounted on mantlets or inside armored wagons.

Henry VIII's experimental shield guns were apparently also designed to be breach loaders. Which makes sense given how the shield might get in the way if it was supposed to be loaded from the muzzle.
Agree. There are a lot of situation when breach-loaders were more useful/ only useful. But what was first- invention of such guns, then application them to such situation; or appearance of situation and then invention of those guns? Without source documents we can only guess all the time.
 
#14
I'd add a few additional reasons ..........

Canon is the forebear of all gunning whether that was early Arquebus or Musket, they were all based off the design of early canon, early canon was used for sieging castles and fortifications, they weren't designed specifically for shooting at men.

Even when they eventually were like the video says the bounce was much more devastating as it gave you numerous impacts not just one.

Construction of a round ball is easier to make than aerodynamic rounds for medieval smiths.

A round ball is just as good for pummelling stone walls

The riffling of the barrel wasn't used in canon

It was rifle fire which drove the need for accurate aerodynamic rounds not canon which was the science initial rifles were built on.
 
Dec 2018
67
Singapore
#16
RustyBollard-I'm afraid I can't refer to "documents", only books. I will try to compile a list of those I've read which deal with the history of artillery.
Any your advice will be highly appreciated. If you have a link to free downloads- even better!:) Or e-reading?

I did not see (yet) the clear statement that breach-loaders was not in use in 13-14CE. My general impression is that breach-loaders suddenly appears in this period (before muzzle-loaders), very quickly was used all around the world (exaggeration, of course, but..) and then very slowly (during 3 centuries) were replaced by muzzle-loaders. I will be glad to have better information on that subject.

One more question from the same point of view- why all early guns are made from iron/steel, but later was made from bronze- as much more technological (at that period) material?
 
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Dec 2018
67
Singapore
#17
I have found some very interesting opinion :

Breech_loading_cannon_origin.jpg
"Firearms: A Global History to 1700" By Kenneth Chase

However he mentioned, that breech-loaders were originated in Europe and delivered to China in 1522 (folandji).
But from another source (Furnivall, J.S. Netherlands India: A Study of Plural Economy) it looks that breech-loading guns called cetbang were used by the Majapahit Empire during the conquest of Nusantara in 1336–1350 and produced in number.
"...when Portuguese first came to Malacca (1511) they noticed a large colony of Javanese merchants under its own headman; the Javanese even founded their own cannon, which then, and for long after, were as necessary to merchant ships as sails..."
Cetbang_Majapahit cannon from the Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York.jpg Majapahit cetbang from Metropolitan Museum, New York
 

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Dec 2018
67
Singapore
#19
This is an interesting explanation. Good post. Apart from the fact that now seems politically correct saying that Chinese have invented everything before anyone else ...
It is correct, and not only politically. I was astonished, when read this extract from "The gunpowder age" by Tonio Andrade, where he talks about Song dynasty (960-1279 CE) achievements (only) Song dinasty inventions.png :
 
Jan 2019
50
My mom's basement
#20
Very interesting toppic!Well made video,you have my sub!
Btw,where did you found that black and white footage used in video?