Why slaves were seen as less whites by other western europeans ?

Sep 2012
3,366
Bulgaria
#11
I made an analogy in another thread with Normans of Duke William. Bulgars were the ruling elite and apparently they were not as numerous as Slavs. After Christianization and adoption of Cyrillic alphabet Bulgar language became extinct on the Balkan peninsula. We have several words from them in our modern vocabulary like kuche /slavic pes/ translation dog. How numerous were Visigoths & Suebi in comparison with local vulgar latin speaking population during their migration into Iberian peninsula?
 
Dec 2014
5,776
Spain
#13
There is no meaning in which Romanians can be called "Slavs".
Thanks for information

According what I know: Romanians are:

Linguistically, the Romanian language is a Latin language with a Slavic influence and a pre-Roman substrate as Spanish is a Latin Language with a Pre-Roman substrate.

From a culture point of view.. I think Romanian culture is very very interesting and strange: It has a Pre-Roman and Roman substrantes influenced by a kind of fussion between the Hungarian culture (Magyars), Austrian (Germanic), Slavs, Turk, Greek, and in less degree: Gypsies, Armenians, Tartarian, and Jews.
 
Apr 2012
6,591
Romania
#14
Thanks for information

According what I know: Romanians are:

Linguistically, the Romanian language is a Latin language with a Slavic influence and a pre-Roman substrate as Spanish is a Latin Language with a Pre-Roman substrate.

From a culture point of view.. I think Romanian culture is very very interesting and strange: It has a Pre-Roman and Roman substrantes influenced by a kind of fussion between the Hungarian culture (Magyars), Austrian (Germanic), Slavs, Turk, Greek, and in less degree: Gypsies, Armenians, Tartarian, and Jews.
Being linguistically and culturally influenced by Slavs and having some Slav admixture don't make you Slav.

Romanian culture like any other culture has been influenced along history by various other cultures with which it interacted or had the prestige to act upon it, but concerning the supposed influences you enumerated above, some don't even exist while others are incomparable in level and importance, maybe you confuse the Romanian culture with the sum of the cultures of the various ethnicities which lived or still live on the territory of Romania, otherwise I can't explain why e.g. you didn't mention the French culture, whose influence was real and important.
 
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Apr 2012
6,591
Romania
#15
The words 'Slavs' and 'Slaves' are homonyms. They sound similar but have different meanings.

The word 'Slavs' derives from 'Slovo' translation word with meaning people who can speak, ergo it's an endonym. As a side note slavic word for Germans is 'nemci' translation mute people, who cant speak.

On the other hand English word 'Slave' derives from the Byzantine Greek σκλάβο /sklavo, via Norman French 'sclave' and Latin sclavus.
Please see the etymology of the old Romanian word for "Slav": șcheau - Wiktionary.
 
Sep 2012
3,366
Bulgaria
#16
Please see the etymology of the old Romanian word for "Slav": șcheau - Wiktionary.
I am aware of it. In Italian language, the medieval Latin sclavus evolved into schiavo and further into sciavo used in the Venetian greeting: sciao vostro, direct translation 'i am your slave' and meaning 'i am at your service'. The greeting shortened to sciavo with time to its modern form ciao.

Ciao - Wikipedia
 
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Apr 2012
6,591
Romania
#17
I am aware of it. In Italian language, the medieval Latin sclavus evolved into schiavo and further into sciavo used in the Venetian greeting: sciao vostro, direct translation 'i am your slave' and meaning 'i am at your service'. The greeting shortened to sciavo with time to its modern form ciao. My ppl use this loanword a lot but instead of hello it means good bye. heh.

Ciao - Wikipedia
I just told you that the Latin sclavus seems to have meant "Slav" before meaning "slave", as shown by the meaning of the old Romanian and Albanian (shqa - Wiktionary) words. BTW see Șcheii Brașovului - Wikipedia (șchei is the plural of șcheau and șcheii is șchei with the definite article).
 
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Dec 2014
5,776
Spain
#18
Being linguistically and culturally influenced by Slavs and having some Slav admixture don't make you Slav.

Romanian culture like any other culture has been influenced along history by various other cultures with which it interacted or had the prestige to act upon it, but concerning the supposed influences you enumerated above, some don't even exist while others are incomparable in level and importance, maybe you confuse the Romanian culture with the sum of the cultures of the various ethnicities which lived or still live on the territory of Romania, otherwise I can't explain why e.g. you didn't mention the French culture, whose influence was real and important.
French culture only from 19th Century onwards and in Elites.. and never as the Magyar (still I can hearn Hungarian language in Romania....never in my life I heart a romanian speaking French with other romanian... but yes speaking Hungarian...)
I made an analogy in another thread with Normans of Duke William. Bulgars were the ruling elite and apparently they were not as numerous as Slavs. After Christianization and adoption of Cyrillic alphabet Bulgar language became extinct on the Balkan peninsula. We have several words from them in our modern vocabulary like kuche /slavic pes/ translation dog. How numerous were Visigoths & Suebi in comparison with local vulgar latin speaking population during their migration into Iberian peninsula?

Yes I think you are right. Around 300.000 goths between 4 millions hispanos-Romans
 
Apr 2012
6,591
Romania
#19
French culture only from 19th Century onwards and in Elites.. and never as the Magyar (still I can hearn Hungarian language in Romania....never in my life I heart a romanian speaking French with other romanian... but yes speaking Hungarian...)
I quote from my reply above: "maybe you confuse the Romanian culture with the sum of the cultures of the various ethnicities which lived or still live on the territory of Romania ". Ethnic Romanians speak Romanian between themselves, neither Hungarian nor French, but how many words of French origin are in Romanian, and how many words of Hungarian origin? See Romanian language lexis.
 
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Jun 2014
2,321
Venice
#20
Ac
Not exactly "less whites". It depends on the historical period you consider. In Roman age, for example, slavery wasn't connected with ethnicity at all [Africans became citizens of the Empire like Europeans, just to say]. Slavery was a condition of inferiority due to a military defeat, the conquest of a territory [not rarely Romans took slaves from a conquered land], extreme poverty ... A good part of the slaves in Rome were whites [many of them came from North, not a few Germans were slaves in the Empire, for example].

Different matter is the ethnic slavery which appeared when Europeans begun to think that the Christian / Western civilization was in some way superior to the others [from the age of exploration to the age of colonialism].

An evolution [or an excess] of the colonial mindset is the racism at the base of the Nazi slavery. This racism was based on the persuasion that within the Christian / Western civilization there was a superior core, a superior race, owner of the human perfection [or something like that].
acttually Romans were Racist and identified races as slaves according to ethnicities as well . Just some wete more akin to Romans than others and condidered on higher status.
Plus there were no African Roman citizens but you may refer to North Africans most of them colons from europe too.