Women as leaders in the contemporary world

VHS

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
4,861
Florania
Ancient female leaders were most likely royals or family members of prominent statesmen.
If Steven Pinker is indeed correct, many women's rights did not come until 1970s or even later
in the developed countries, let alone the Islamic states and many developing countries.
We still notice "lack of women in positions of leadership", and some of them have failed and fallen.
The case is a little against women here: If a male leader fails, we just talk about his incompetence;
when a female leader fails, some people may blame the sex.
Understandably, not all female leaders are at the level of Catherine the Great nor some greater female
leaders of the twentieth century; similarly, we do not expect all male leaders to be Li Shimin.
Is it true that female leaders face more pressures than male leaders?
Do we necessarily expect more from female leaders?
How do genders or sexes affect the positions or styles of leadership?
 

holoow

Ad Honorem
Jun 2012
3,884
Vilnius, Lithuania
Women are often not interested in the future of their country and their people or national economy ( BTW, why Chinese character jiān with many negative meanings, such as self-serving, treacherous, traitor, betrayal etc. has female radical in it? ).
 

VHS

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
4,861
Florania
Women are often not interested in the future of their country and their people or national economy ( BTW, why Chinese character jiān with many negative meanings, such as self-serving, treacherous, traitor, betrayal etc. has female radical in it? ).
It's cool that you know the Chinese characters.
Then, should we expect too much when rights revolution for women have only been fulfilled since the late 1970s and is still progressing?
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
14,285
Jordan Petersen points out that the world never had so many female politicians at so many levels (from small town mayors to presidents) .. This is a new phenomenom that is about 50 years old and the effects are not predictable.... Also in the past , in order to maintain themselves in a leadership position, females mostly had to adopt "masculine traits", while today it is no longer a strong requirement...

In his view, (to simplify) women were historically responsible for "redistribution" (i.e ensuring everyone in the tribe was fed, or at least somewhat fed) so he predicts policies will shift even more towards redistribution...
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
9,978
Jordan Petersen points out that the world never had so many female politicians at so many levels (from small town mayors to presidents) .. This is a new phenomenom that is about 50 years old and the effects are not predictable.... Also in the past , in order to maintain themselves in a leadership position, females mostly had to adopt "masculine traits", while today it is no longer a strong requirement...

In his view, (to simplify) women were historically responsible for "redistribution" (i.e ensuring everyone in the tribe was fed, or at least somewhat fed) so he predicts policies will shift even more towards redistribution...
Well he would say that. he's a thrid water huckster.
 
Nov 2016
1,598
Germany
Is it true that female leaders face more pressures than male leaders?
Do we necessarily expect more from female leaders?
How do genders or sexes affect the positions or styles of leadership?
In my opinion, the genderization of the issue is problematic. It is precisely by bringing alleged or real prejudices against women into the discussion that women are immunized against criticism. Because anyone who criticizes a female leader is then suspected of being misogynistic.

It would be better to focus on the facts and to look at the quality of a leadership style regardless of the gender of the person. It is in Germany that this question is most intensively posed, because Mrs Merkel, who is considered the most powerful woman in the world, has been in power for a very long time and is politically extremely controversial in Germany. Abroad, the picture is distorted and she seems to be popular, which can only be due to ignorance of the political facts.

I must say that Mrs Merkel represents a very daunting instance in case that she is considered an example of female leadership. She is highly authoritarian and ruthless within her party and has absolutely no interest in the well-being of the people. She is nothing else than a submissive puppet of the corporations. The gap between rich and poor has grown even wider in Germany under her government. Under Merkel, this gap is largest in Europe compared to all other countries. So in terms of social justice, Merkel is a disaster for Germany. She is also very controversial in regard to immigration policy and has thus polarized Germany to a high degree. The right-wing and also the neo-Nazis have been highly enraged by Merkel's policies and have gained much political and psychological strength as a result. This is all Merkel's fault.

So there is no reason to assume that political leadership of a woman automatically leads to better conditions in a country. In Germany the opposite is true.

This example is therefore fatal for a genderization of the issue of 'women as political leaders'.

Things do not look better on a smaller scale. There are several surveys on how employees would like to have a female boss. The result is clear: neither men nor women (!) would prefer a woman to a man as boss. Only every tenth (!) woman would prefer a female boss.

Such poll results and studies are available for Germany and the USA (Harvard study).


Studies on human cooperation using economic games rarely include ecologically relevant factors. In studies on non-human primates however, both status and sex typically influence patterns of cooperation. Across primate species, high status individuals are more likely to cooperate, though this depends on the species-specific social structure of each sex. Based on human social structure, we predict that higher status males who interact more in hierarchical groups than females, will invest more than high status females in valued same-sex peers after successful cooperation. Across three studies, 187 male and 188 female participants cooperated with a (fictitious) same-sex partner who varied in competence. Participants then divided a reward between themselves and their partner. High status was induced in three different ways in each study, social influence, leadership and power. No overall sex difference in reward sharing was observed. Consistent with the hypothesis however, across all three studies, high status males invested more than high status females in cooperative partners, suggesting that high status males intuitively evaluate sharing rewards with same-sex partners as more beneficial.
 
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pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
9,978
In my opinion, the genderization of the issue is problematic. It is precisely by bringing alleged or real prejudices against women into the discussion that women are immunized against criticism. Because anyone who criticizes a female leader is then suspected of being misogynistic.

It would be better to focus on the facts and to look at the quality of a leadership style regardless of the gender of the person. It is in Germany that this question is most intensively posed, because Mrs Merkel, who is considered the most powerful woman in the world, has been in power for a very long time and is politically extremely controversial in Germany. Abroad, the picture is distorted and she seems to be popular, which can only be due to ignorance of the political facts.

I must say that Mrs Merkel represents a very daunting instance in case that she is considered an example of female leadership. She is highly authoritarian and ruthless within her party and has absolutely no interest in the well-being of the people. She is nothing else than a submissive puppet of the corporations. The gap between rich and poor has grown even wider in Germany under her government. Under Merkel, this gap is largest in Europe compared to all other countries. So in terms of social justice, Merkel is a disaster for Germany. She is also very controversial in regard to immigration policy and has thus polarized Germany to a high degree. The right-wing and also the neo-Nazis have been highly enraged by Merkel's policies and have gained much political and psychological strength as a result. This is all Merkel's fault.

So there is no reason to assume that political leadership of a woman automatically leads to better conditions in a country. In Germany the opposite is true.

This example is therefore fatal for a genderization of the issue of 'women as political leaders'.

Things do not look better on a smaller scale. There are several surveys on how employees would like to have a female boss. The result is clear: neither men nor women (!) would prefer a woman to a man as boss. Only every tenth (!) woman would prefer a female boss.

Such poll results and studies are available for Germany and the USA (Harvard study).


Studies on human cooperation using economic games rarely include ecologically relevant factors. In studies on non-human primates however, both status and sex typically influence patterns of cooperation. Across primate species, high status individuals are more likely to cooperate, though this depends on the species-specific social structure of each sex. Based on human social structure, we predict that higher status males who interact more in hierarchical groups than females, will invest more than high status females in valued same-sex peers after successful cooperation. Across three studies, 187 male and 188 female participants cooperated with a (fictitious) same-sex partner who varied in competence. Participants then divided a reward between themselves and their partner. High status was induced in three different ways in each study, social influence, leadership and power. No overall sex difference in reward sharing was observed. Consistent with the hypothesis however, across all three studies, high status males invested more than high status females in cooperative partners, suggesting that high status males intuitively evaluate sharing rewards with same-sex partners as more beneficial.
How is this NOT genderization of the issue?
 
Nov 2016
1,598
Germany
How is this NOT genderization of the issue
I have oscillated between genderization and non-genderization, yes. As far as Merkel is concerned, on the one hand, I criticized independently of gender and then added that she is a bad example of female leadership, IN CASE that you look at it from a gender perspective.

What I wanted to express with my objection to genderization, I have already said: there is then a danger that criticism of female politicians will be misunderstood as hostile to women, which can lead to immunization against criticism.

On the other hand, I can't avoid gendering the topic myself when it happens in this thread, whose topic is the gendering of political leadership.

One must therefore argue here in two ways: On the one hand, gendering, on the other hand, standing above gendering. This dialectical contradiction is part of the topic.

In the last part of my post on polls and research on female leadership, gender is inevitably part of this topic. Here I did not genderize, but only reported on surveys on the opinion of people of both sexes on the topic of female bosses. This should not be left unmentioned so that the discussion does not leave the ground of empirical facts (the experience and opinion of affected people regarding women as bosses) and become purely theoretical. What is particularly interesting here is the fact that the vast majority of women also have a problem with female bosses.

I don't want to take here an anti-feminist stance, because I am a feminist myself. However, I belong to the kind of feminist who does not idealize women, but points out aspects of (many of) them that still need a lot of work until something like emancipation is really achieved.
 
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Apr 2018
43
Canada
In a wargame app game i was in involving near constant conflict we had a female leader who was both in good measure fierce and compassionate.

Her style emphasized teamwork strong group bonding (family) and a mother/matriarch
presence.

She was not top down but worked with and trusted her officers.

She could punish justly and forgive after time for the offender to reflect.

She could admit to vulnerability and inspire like a lioness.

I can say for myself and the males in our alliance that our loyalty and devotion to her were without peer.
 

Menshevik

Ad Honorem
Dec 2012
9,503
here
In my opinion, the genderization of the issue is problematic. It is precisely by bringing alleged or real prejudices against women into the discussion that women are immunized against criticism. Because anyone who criticizes a female leader is then suspected of being misogynistic.

It would be better to focus on the facts and to look at the quality of a leadership style regardless of the gender of the person. It is in Germany that this question is most intensively posed, because Mrs Merkel, who is considered the most powerful woman in the world, has been in power for a very long time and is politically extremely controversial in Germany. Abroad, the picture is distorted and she seems to be popular, which can only be due to ignorance of the political facts.

I must say that Mrs Merkel represents a very daunting instance in case that she is considered an example of female leadership. She is highly authoritarian and ruthless within her party and has absolutely no interest in the well-being of the people. She is nothing else than a submissive puppet of the corporations. The gap between rich and poor has grown even wider in Germany under her government. Under Merkel, this gap is largest in Europe compared to all other countries. So in terms of social justice, Merkel is a disaster for Germany. She is also very controversial in regard to immigration policy and has thus polarized Germany to a high degree. The right-wing and also the neo-Nazis have been highly enraged by Merkel's policies and have gained much political and psychological strength as a result. This is all Merkel's fault.

So there is no reason to assume that political leadership of a woman automatically leads to better conditions in a country. In Germany the opposite is true.

This example is therefore fatal for a genderization of the issue of 'women as political leaders'.

Things do not look better on a smaller scale. There are several surveys on how employees would like to have a female boss. The result is clear: neither men nor women (!) would prefer a woman to a man as boss. Only every tenth (!) woman would prefer a female boss.

Such poll results and studies are available for Germany and the USA (Harvard study).


Studies on human cooperation using economic games rarely include ecologically relevant factors. In studies on non-human primates however, both status and sex typically influence patterns of cooperation. Across primate species, high status individuals are more likely to cooperate, though this depends on the species-specific social structure of each sex. Based on human social structure, we predict that higher status males who interact more in hierarchical groups than females, will invest more than high status females in valued same-sex peers after successful cooperation. Across three studies, 187 male and 188 female participants cooperated with a (fictitious) same-sex partner who varied in competence. Participants then divided a reward between themselves and their partner. High status was induced in three different ways in each study, social influence, leadership and power. No overall sex difference in reward sharing was observed. Consistent with the hypothesis however, across all three studies, high status males invested more than high status females in cooperative partners, suggesting that high status males intuitively evaluate sharing rewards with same-sex partners as more beneficial.
I agree with you about criticizing politicians in a standard fashion and not letting their gender influence said criticism or praise.

In regards to Merkel, yes, I am largely ignorant of German politics, but surely she most have some decent amount of popularity among voters, otherwise, how could she still win elections/remain in office?