Women Only Train Cars

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JoanOfArc007

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Dec 2015
3,813
USA
In countries such as Egypt and Japan, women only train car options have been introduced and part of the reason is because ladies have complained of being mistreated by men. The ladies have the option to ride in a womens only train car if they so choose. Iran has reportedly in 2016 launched a womens only train cars, and they claim its for the ladies safety. In the case of Egypt, Japan, and Iran the reason for such train cars being introduced has been due to safety concerns for ladies.

Cairo Journal; For Women Only: A Train Car Safe From Men

Women only cars in trains | Japan Experience

https://realiran.org/iran-is-launching-women-only-train-cars-on-tehran-mashhad-route/

What do folks feel of such a policy? We dont have women only train cars in the USA and in other countries.... but in Egypt and Japan they have such train cars. The NYC subway is also jampacked at times as Im sure other subways around the world such as in Japan can be, but again we do not have the women only option for train cars. So there are multiple ways of society addressing the issue, but how does one go about it. Personally I feel conflicted, crime is unacceptable and a lady should be able to travel on a train safely. Otoh what of equality among man? Is this a case of forced segregation by some countries having these trains that separate sexes? Of course its an option for the ladies to ride the Women only train cars, but the issue of course lay in the fact men can not ride on those women only train cars in Japan and Egypt. And the fact that crime occurs everywhere, is it worth it to have such womens only train cars operating in our world is that righteous?
 
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JoanOfArc007

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Dec 2015
3,813
USA
Women only train cars are available on some transport services in a number of countries including Israel, Japan, India, Egypt, Iran, Brazil, Mexico, Indonesia, Thailand, the Philippines, Malaysia, the United Arab Emirates, and Russia.

Last year there was a call from Jeremy Corbyn, the leader of the opposition party to the government in Britain, to re-introduce such carriages.

https://realiran.org/iran-is-launching-women-only-train-cars-on-tehran-mashhad-route/

Are these countries on the right side of history for doing this? Perhaps they reverse such a policy. Many would say such a policy is saying to the world we have to do this because we have a problem in our society with how women are treated by men. The other angle though is that the Gov leaders of the countries with the segregation policy are instituting a policy that there citizenry as a whole disagrees with. The latter is the angle I feel most liberals or just free minded people would like to be and surely is the case in some of or all countries listed above.
 
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Fox

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Oct 2011
3,937
Korea
So long as one also provides an equivalent number of male-only cars, and also left at least some cars mixed so as to ensure no seats ended up going to waste, it is no more of a problem than having segregated bathrooms. Providing male-only cars as well would serve two purposes:

1) Ensuring equal overall access to seating. That seems like an obvious point of fairness.

2) Providing recourse to men who simply want to avoid the obvious and seemingly ever-increasing complications of sharing public space with females in the modern era. For example, men in public at times feel there is an expectation that they comport themselves to make the females around them feel comfortable, and sitting in a male-only car would eliminate any such concern. Likewise, in a place like public transportation where people are often moving in a somewhat crowded space, incidental physical contact sometimes occurs, and male-only cars would allow men to travel without much concern as to whether such incidental physical contact might be construed as sexual harassment in some way. Finally, although I'm not certain how common this sentiment is, I find that women not uncommonly slather themselves in repulsive perfumes and scents, and being able to escape such unnatural scents might have some allure for some individuals (men also at times do wear scents as well, though in my experience they are much less offensive to me in the rare case I encounter them, and in any case, it's rare enough that I've never felt the need to avoid it).

Just from a perspective of psychological ease, it seems like a fine idea so long as it's implemented in a genuinely equal fashion. On the other hand, if it's not implemented in a genuinely equal fashion, then there seems cause enough for complaint. This is a problem, for example, with "women only parking spaces." It is understandable that politicians and businesses might want to take the views and concerns of women into account -- understandable and even reasonable, since that is part of the point of representative politics in the first place -- yet when one takes the views and concerns of one group into account at the obvious and deliberate expense of another, then one had best have a very good reason to do that. In these cases, no such reason exists, as it is possible to pursue the objective in question while still maintaining parity.

In short, providing the option of sex-specific seating in public transportation is in principle unproblematic, so long as it remains an option (i.e. that mixed seating remains available) and said option is afforded to both sexes equally.
 
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Sep 2016
573
天下
Gropers are a huge problem in Japan. My ex-girlfirend experiences this on herself back when she was still in high school (!), so of course I support this idea. It's not about segregation or favouring women over men. From what I've seen the female-only wagons are typically only in the mornings, at the time when traffic is the most congested.

Of course, it would be better if instead the sexual predators disappeared, but at least in Japan it is not that easy due to cultural reasons.
 

pugsville

Ad Honorem
Oct 2010
9,518
So long as one also provides an equivalent number of male-only cars, and also left at least some cars mixed so as to ensure no seats ended up going to waste, it is no more of a problem than having segregated bathrooms. Providing male-only cars as well would serve two purposes:

1) Ensuring equal overall access to seating. That seems like an obvious point of fairness.

2) Providing recourse to men who simply want to avoid the obvious and seemingly ever-increasing complications of sharing public space with females in the modern era. For example, men in public at times feel there is an expectation that they comport themselves to make the females around them feel comfortable, and sitting in a male-only car would eliminate any such concern. Likewise, in a place like public transportation where people are often moving in a somewhat crowded space, incidental physical contact sometimes occurs, and male-only cars would allow men to travel without much concern as to whether such incidental physical contact might be construed as sexual harassment in some way. Finally, although I'm not certain how common this sentiment is, I find that women not uncommonly slather themselves in repulsive perfumes and scents, and being able to escape such unnatural scents might have some allure for some individuals (men also at times do wear scents as well, though in my experience they are much less offensive to me in the rare case I encounter them, and in any case, it's rare enough that I've never felt the need to avoid it).

Just from a perspective of psychological ease, it seems like a fine idea so long as it's implemented in a genuinely equal fashion. On the other hand, if it's not implemented in a genuinely equal fashion, then there seems cause enough for complaint. This is a problem, for example, with "women only parking spaces." It is understandable that politicians and businesses might want to take the views and concerns of women into account -- understandable and even reasonable, since that is part of the point of representative politics in the first place -- yet when one takes the views and concerns of one group into account at the obvious and deliberate expense of another, then one had best have a very good reason to do that. In these cases, no such reason exists, as it is possible to pursue the objective in question while still maintaining parity.

In short, providing the option of sex-specific seating in public transportation is in principle unproblematic, so long as it remains an option (i.e. that mixed seating remains available) and said option is afforded to both sexes equally.
but men and women are not harassed the same way. Are you saying men need equal funding for pregnacy as women, the same amount of beds in hospital reserved for men delivering babies,

false equaility,
 
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Fox

Ad Honorem
Oct 2011
3,937
Korea
but men and women are not harassed the same way. Are you saying men need equal funding for pregnacy as women, the same amount of beds in hospital reserved for men delivering babies,

false equaility,
First of all, the suggestion that men and women are "not harassed in the same way" is not true. I have seen women engaged in unwanted sexual or violent behavior towards men on public transit, for example, which directly contradicts your proposition here, and when they do so, then not uncommonly face less consequence and receive less response from surrounding parties. Indeed, they receive so little notice that the many citizens seem unaware that such things occur at all, your own reflexive response being a prime example. That alone is enough to cast doubt upon your position, which is actually sexually prejudiced in the same way that the belief that domestic violence is something that only women suffer at the hands of men alone is sexually prejudiced. Beyond that, there is no law of nature that suggests harassment or discomfort need be of the exact and precise same sort to justify action. If the fact that some females would prefer to not sit in the presence of men in order to avoid awkward or uncomfortable interactions is adequate to justify female only cars, then the fact that some men might prefer the same is adequate to justify the existence of male only cars, and the fact that the two groups might have different underlying reasons for their preference is really secondary. This is quite different from the matter of funding "male pregnancy," which does not exist and accordingly cannot be but a waste of funds (though I hope you realize there are transgendered people who would consider you "transphobic" for saying such a thing; you're sinning against your own ideology here, though I for one won't criticize it). Finally, even point #1 about ensuring that men and women had equal access to seating ought to have been sufficient. There is no rational basis for offering male passengers fewer total seats than female passengers given one has the resources to do so (and one does, since neither the total number of passengers nor the total number of cars in the train changes, meaning mere reassignment is adequate).

Ironically, the attitude displayed in the above response highlights much of what many people consider loathsome and repulsive in feminist ideology. The feminist will say, "We just want equality," or, "Feminism is about equal rights," or so forth, and then turn around and take issue even with the most reasonable requests for sex parity, such as ensuring that both men and women have equal access to seating, or the notion that perhaps some men would be just as happy to avoid women in public places as women would be to avoid men, and with reasons which are, if not exactly the same in all particulars, at least equally sound .
 
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Naomasa298

Forum Staff
Apr 2010
35,257
T'Republic of Yorkshire
In Japan, it's a good idea. Japan is a deeply misogynistic society, and women travelling alone late at night or early in the morning are at risk of harassment. Young girls, by which I mean school age girls, are also at risk at any time of day. On my very first trip there, I saw an upskirter run past me being chased by an angry woman - he got off, as we were just pulling into the station, but was apprehended by station staff.

But you know what happens to these people? The pictures get deleted, and they are let go.

An American friend of mine living in Japan intervened when a fourteen year old girl was being harassed on a train by three older men. The girl was petrified, but didn't want to go to the police because she was ashamed.

We're talking about a country where there are warnings against upskirting in train stations, so yeah, it's a good idea.
 

JoanOfArc007

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
3,813
USA
Gropers are a huge problem in Japan. My ex-girlfirend experiences this on herself back when she was still in high school (!), so of course I support this idea. It's not about segregation or favouring women over men. From what I've seen the female-only wagons are typically only in the mornings, at the time when traffic is the most congested.

Of course, it would be better if instead the sexual predators disappeared, but at least in Japan it is not that easy due to cultural reasons.
I believe though Japan, Egypt and all countries listed that do provide female only train car options to have a humane population in general. I was a bit surprised to see some of the countries listed that provide such a service such as Japan and Thailand. I have not been to Japan but my brother visited Japan, he mentioned nothing about mistreatment of ladies in Japan. Does anyone here have raw crime stats on Japan or even Egypt for example? Wrt sexual assault rates,, one wonders how countries with train car options for ladies compared to countries without such an option such as the USA. I actually meant a gal from Thailand last year and looking at her Instagram pics and learning from her in person about Thailand you get the sense Thailand is family friendly. I fully admit I would have assumed that the middle eastern countries would have such a policy due to religions reasons, but to that point Egypt for example says they have the option of female only train cars not due to some so called Sharia law but due to safety concerns.

One argument to be put fourth here is that crime including sexual assault happens everywhere, including in broad day light all over the world everyday. So by having the separate train cars for ladies in some countries is this truly the way forward? Is such a policy actually mitigating crime? Can such a policy have a bad effect on equality among man? Iin this topic there will be both men and women that provide a disagreement for a variety of reasons with the separate train cars for ladies or for that matter, separate train cars for men.

Personally I like the idea of a gal being able to arm herself in the case of a criminal man trying to sexually assault her. We should also consider that Most men are not sexual predators. And consider that both men and women have committed sex crimes. It would be wrong for one to view Sex crimes as only being committed by men. We know some women teachers have sexually assaulted there students just as some male teachers have done to there students. I disagree with having train cars for women only or for men only. But I certainly will hear out the other side...and honestly if enough ladies wanted the separate train cars I would just agree with them.
 

JoanOfArc007

Ad Honorem
Dec 2015
3,813
USA
And what of the many women out there who will say you know what I don’t need a woman’s only train car I can protect myself against any criminal man out there that wants to assault me. Lot of ladies these days are tough and they don’t any sort of nonsense from anyone and that’s something to admire
 

tomar

Ad Honoris
Jan 2011
13,815
It smacks of a slippery slope leading to sex apartheid.....(visiting Saudi Arabia would give a clear view of what that leads it).... Thus I would be against it in principle.......
 
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