Oct 2008
In YOUR opinion who provided the BEST SOLUTION on the problems worker's faced in 19th century Europe between: Karl Marx, David Ricardo or Samuel Smiles and WHY do you think this?


Forum Staff
Mar 2008
On a mountain top in Costa Rica. yeah...I win!!
Are you in Mr. Willford's European History 101 also?


Historum Emeritas
Dec 2006
New Jersey, USA
Well, at least it's not a cell phone spammer (which is what I thought at first) ...


Historum Emeritas
Jul 2006
Marx. Socialism was a workable system back then and still is now.


Ad Honorem
Jul 2007
Marx. Socialism was a workable system back then and still is now.
Hmmm ... Marx wasn't the sort of socialist I think you're thinking of.

He named the "lumpen proletariat" - the lowest underclasses, which he described as "flotsam of society" and "the refuse of all classes" - as a class enemy of the workers, who were supposedly in league with the bourgeouisie.

He also vigorously attacked wealth redistribution schemes and sought the abolition of the state: socialism in the common sense of the term as it is used today was also seen as a counter-revolutionary element. This is what Marx had to say about socialism as the term is most commonly used today:

A part of the bourgeoisie is desirous of redressing social grievances in order to secure the continued existence of bourgeois society.

To this section belong economists, philanthropists, humanitarians, improvers of the condition of the working class, organisers of charity, members of societies for the prevention of cruelty to animals, temperance fanatics, hole-and-corner reformers of every imaginable kind. This form of socialism has, moreover, been worked out into complete systems.

We may cite Proudhon’s Philosophis de la Misère as an example of this form.

The Socialistic bourgeois want all the advantages of modern social conditions without the struggles and dangers necessarily resulting therefrom. They desire the existing state of society, minus its revolutionary and disintegrating elements. They wish for a bourgeoisie without a proletariat. ... By changes in the material conditions of existence, this form of Socialism, however, by no means understands abolition of the bourgeois relations of production, an abolition that can be affected only by a revolution, but administrative reforms, based on the continued existence of these relations; reforms, therefore, that in no respect affect the relations between capital and labour, but, at the best, lessen the cost, and simplify the administrative work, of bourgeois government.

Bourgeois Socialism attains adequate expression when, and only when, it becomes a mere figure of speech.

Free trade: for the benefit of the working class. Protective duties: for the benefit of the working class. Prison Reform: for the benefit of the working class. This is the last word and the only seriously meant word of bourgeois socialism.

It is summed up in the phrase: the bourgeois is a bourgeois — for the benefit of the working class.

Marx did alot of criticism, but his solutions were awfully brief and vague and people are still debating what they were. Broadly speaking, Marx believed that all wealth came from physical labour and physical labour alone, and that workers should retain the entirety of anything they produce: no profits for the rich, and no taxation to support the poor.


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i'm a pathetic loser
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