Worst case outcome of the 1990s Bosnian War

Jan 2019
127
Finland
Yeah, I mean, it's like after the end of WWI--where Bohemia's historical borders were viewed as sacrosanct while Hungary's weren't. It's as if there were different standards for victorious nations and defeated nations in spite of the peace settlement allegedly being made on the basis of national self-determination.
You can add Austria trying to join Germany in that period to that double standard as well. To this day the ideal might be "national self-determination" but whether that is being upheld as opposed to "territorial integrity" is purely a matter of geopolitics. Neither is ever in and of itself a goal but rather a means to an end.
 
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Oct 2015
1,195
California
Why shouldn't Serbia keep its Albanian population? They are citizens of Serbia just as anyone else. Kosovo is an autonomous province and I think that even if Serbia somehow regains control, it should grant a large degree of autonomy to Kosovo Albanians.

Was it ever possible for Yugoslavia to survive as a Yugoslav Federation patterned on the Swiss model?
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,728
SoCal
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It was. There is no reason state like Bosnia shouldnt be split up. I think they didnt even try to stop violence in balkans. But we didnt decide anything, rather US did
I wonder if the Europeans would have been willing to support a hard partition of Bosnia if the US would have.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
21,728
SoCal
You can add Austria trying to join Germany in that period to that double standard as well. To this day the ideal might be "national self-determination" but whether that is being upheld as opposed to "territorial integrity" is purely a matter of geopolitics. Neither is ever in and of itself a goal but rather a means to an end.
Yeah, there's certainly an extremely delicate dance between national self-determination and territorial integrity. Some countries prefer to dance one way, while other countries prefer to dance another way. For instance, the UK is willing to allow its constituent parts to secede; India, China, and Pakistan, not so much.
 
Jan 2019
127
Finland
Yeah, there's certainly an extremely delicate dance between national self-determination and territorial integrity. Some countries prefer to dance one way, while other countries prefer to dance another way. For instance, the UK is willing to allow its constituent parts to secede; India, China, and Pakistan, not so much.
I'd say there's no country that's one way or the other solely. UK allows a referendum for Scotland because it basically has to, but when it comes to Kosovo, Crimea, Abkhasia... It's geopolitics. Same with Russia: when Kosovo declared independence in 2008 Russia said: "how you like it" and recognised Abkhasia and South Ossetia as a middle finger, probably citing the exact same legal arguments as the West did in recognition of Kosovo just to make a point. Obviously it didn't work, nor will it ever because we in the West have no problem being hypocritical because we are morally right, always.
 
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Jan 2019
127
Finland
Kosovo independence precedent - Wikipedia
The West opened a Pandora's box with Kosovo.
But the only result of that opening was that Russia recognised some breakaway regions, and Crimea, and it won't do that to Eastern Ukraine most likely because it's useless. Nothing opened up a "Pandora's Box" because there never was one, there was only ever a predominance of countries that are on one side or the other, and as it is the West has it. They can decide whether they like national self-determination or territorial integrity on the basis of how that harms Russia and then it's sold as international law.
 

Maki

Ad Honorem
Jan 2017
3,546
Republika Srpska
But the only result of that opening was that Russia recognised some breakaway regions, and Crimea, and it won't do that to Eastern Ukraine most likely because it's useless. Nothing opened up a "Pandora's Box" because there never was one, there was only ever a predominance of countries that are on one side or the other, and as it is the West has it. They can decide whether they like national self-determination or territorial integrity on the basis of how that harms Russia and then it's sold as international law.
Sure, but Kosovo's independence created a dangerous precedent. Russia already used it, who knows what country will use it next. If Kosovo can be independent, so can Donetsk and Lugansk. Of course, we must take circumstances into account, but in both cases the separatists (Albanians/Russians) claimed they were intolerably oppressed by the country they were seceding from and so they needed independence.