Would a non-Communist Russia have been more successful at Russifying the "Near Abroad"?

Oct 2013
13,497
Europix
#22
Why were the Serbs, Croats, Bulgarians, Macedonians, and Greeks in the Ottoman Empire largely immune to this, though?
IDK, I didn't found a satisfying explanation till now.

All of this makes a lot of sense. Of course, there is another way to Russify territories--specifically have a lot of Russians move into these territories while encouraging the indigenous population of these territories to either move to other parts of Russia or emigrate. This approach actually achieved reasonably success in Latvia, Estonia, Crimea, southeastern Ukraine, northern Kazakhstan, and the Far East.
It happened.

And that also wasn't always forced movements: Russians were a large majority, and also a numerous one. Even without a will for russification, a Russian had (would have, if we remain in Your speculative "theme") more chances to get a good position/a better job anywhere in the Empire.

It's an indirect way to reinforce russification, and it hadn't to be forced, programated. Think for example at the latinsation in ancient Rome, the sinization in China, aso.
 
Likes: Futurist
Apr 2017
974
U.S.A.
#23
How many Russians did Latvia manage to deport (as opposed to having them leave Latvia voluntarily)?

Also, the Lithuanian Russian % never even reached 10%, but Yes, in Latvia and Estonia, it was much higher. Latvians almost became a minority in their own country by 1991.

In addition, thanks for this information!
Not sure on the numbers but I remember it being in the news around fifteen years ago.
 
Likes: Futurist

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
15,559
SoCal
#24
IDK, I didn't found a satisfying explanation till now.
OK.

It happened.

And that also wasn't always forced movements: Russians were a large majority, and also a numerous one. Even without a will for russification, a Russian had (would have, if we remain in Your speculative "theme") more chances to get a good position/a better job anywhere in the Empire.

It's an indirect way to reinforce russification, and it hadn't to be forced, programated. Think for example at the latinsation in ancient Rome, the sinization in China, aso.
I just want to make a brief comment here--Russians were actually only a bare majority in the USSR when it collapsed. Their position could have been a little better without their WWII losses, but if it would have kept Poland, this would have nullified these benefits since Russia would have also had tens of millions more non-Russians.

You are very much correct, though, that there was a high premium for being Russian. Interestingly enough, this might be especially true in a post-Tsarist Russia (a non-Communist one) due to the fact that such a Russia would have had to listen to the demands of its electorate. In contrast, Tsarist Russia could afford to give non-Russians a lot of prominent positions. Indeed, a lot of Tsarist Russia's nobility were non-Russians and even the Russian royal family wasn't that Russian (it was of Russian descent, but very heavily mixed with German and other European blood).
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
15,559
SoCal
#26
Small nitpicking: it's not the few prominent positions that contribute to russification (or any -fication), but the hundreds/thousands of small but good jobs. Miners, workers, teachers, nurses.
Makes sense. Indeed, I'm presuming that this is why cities were more likely to get successfully Russified in comparison to rural areas.

For instance, this is a map of language rather than ethnicity (so it's not quite the same thing), but it is worth noting that, outside of Crimea and the Donbass, the Russian-heavy parts of Ukraine are in large part the cities:

 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
15,559
SoCal
#28
its not the same thing, but it's important, as usually it's the last step before any-fication.

As for urban areas vs rural areas, it was always like that (still is): rural areas are more resistant to changes.
Makes sense.

BTW, it's interesting that the Kuban was very thoroughly Russified in the 1930s as a result of Stalin forcing the Ukrainians there to identify as Russians. This ended up sticking and that's why the Ukrainians in the Kuban still overwhelmingly identify as Russians even right now.