Would California have became as economically and culturally dominant if it hadn't been ceded to the US?

May 2019
10
United States
#1
The US state of California had a GDP higher than France and the UK, in addition to being the center of the film and television industry for much of the world, with areas like Silicon valley being technology centers, but would California have been like this had Mexico not ceded the region to the US? Would oasis cities like Las Vegas ever have popped up in the southwest without the US controlling the region?
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
16,806
SoCal
#2
The answer to this question is a big, fat No! Without US rule, California and the rest of the Southwest would have ended up looking extremely similar to Mexico's northern provinces--with everything that this would have entailed.
 

Chlodio

Ad Honorem
Aug 2016
3,659
Dispargum
#4
1. Under Spanish/ Mexican law mineral rights belong to the government, not the land owner so the California Gold Rush and all of the oil that has been pumped out of California over the last 150 years would have been very different. Profits from that mineral wealth would have gone to different entities and would have been spent in different ways.

2. Much of California's wealth is derived from the US defense industrial complex because of things like access to the Pacific Ocean. If Mexico wanted or was ever able to become a Pacific power, they could do so without California.

3. Another large segment of California's wealth comes from Pacific trade. Mexico has at least two large and excellent ports on its Pacific coast. It has no need to develop California's ports the way the US did. California is periferal relative to the rest of Mexico but central to US access to the Pacific trade routes.

4. Agriculture - look at aerial photos of the Imperial Valley that straddles the California-Mexico border. The green north of the border compared to the desert south of the border testifies to the American investment in irrigation. In the image below, the border is in the lower left corner running from upper left to lower right - green on the US side of the border, desert brown on the Mexican side. Now multiply that across all of California - so much for Americans eating fresh fruits and vegetables in the winter.

1557777947827.png

5. If Mexico had ever developed a movie and TV industry in Southern California, they would have had to dub everything into English to access the larger and wealthier American and English-speaking market. More likely, the American movie industry would have set up somewhere else - maybe Hollywood, Florida?
 
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Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
16,806
SoCal
#5
@Chlodio: I agree with your points here. The one thing that I have a quibble with is the Pacific part. In reality, the US could have likewise become a Pacific power even without California just as long as it would have still had Oregon and/or Washington.

Also, it's spelled "peripheral," not "periferal."
 

martin76

Ad Honorem
Dec 2014
6,251
Spain
#6
Well.. we don´t know how it would have been California under Mexican or Spanish ruled... different for sure... but we don´t know if better or not... and it depends if we have the Danish Inmigrants point of views... the native point of view etc etc...

By other side... life if so short we have not perspective... you don´t know (and nobody) and of course not me... .how is going to be future.. Yankees.. as before British, Spanish, Romans.. think they are going to bee eternally the greatest power in the world ... Vanitas, vanitas et Omnias Vanitas (Miguel de Mañara) ... nobody is eternal .. and neither the Yankee rule, so we do not know how California will be in the year 2254 and how rich will Honduras be that year ...
If somebody would have say to Ferdinand VI or to Charles II that a gang of poor devils running out from Europe.... they were going to rule the Earth... they were died of a laughing attack...not to think in Egyptian, Asyrian, Roman, Macedonian etc etc

So you can speak about 2019 from... 1870? but it is too much short period.. to know how will be Earth in the year 2240....personally I think USA are not going to be the greatest power on Earth in the year 2082...21th Century is going to be the China´s Century... China will be the greater economic power in 2020.. the greatest military power in 2040..

So ... who knows? maybe next question will be.. Why California is richest as Chinese province that as State in USA?

nobody escapes the wheel ... nobody.
 

Futurist

Ad Honoris
May 2014
16,806
SoCal
#8
Las Vegas is in Nevada! And as a joke I wouldn’t call it an oasis! Unless we call it a gambling oasis.
The hotels in Vegas are also very nice--as are the fast food places and restaurants. I visited Vegas twice with my family--once in 2006 and once in 2010--and we had a great experience even though we never actually engaged in any gambling.
 

Tulius

Ad Honorem
May 2016
5,139
Portugal
#9
The hotels in Vegas are also very nice--as are the fast food places and restaurants. I visited Vegas twice with my family--once in 2006 and once in 2010--and we had a great experience even though we never actually engaged in any gambling.
Pardon me the light tone, but since you were with the family, I can assume that you also didn’t interact much with the female working population?

I know that it is a stereotype that much of us, mostly Europeans, have, but we can’t avoid the idea that Las Vegas is a oasis of gambling, prostitutes, hotels and fast food chains. And personally in all this, the only thing that I like is good hotels, but we can find them anywhere in the world.

A couple of weekends ago I was in this one, less than 100 km from my house, in the biggest mountain in Portugal, only 2000 meters high, but often with snow:

Aqualudic - Aquadome

Outside:





Inside:



Sorry… I am out of topic… but I was fascinated again with the H2O hotel. And there isn’t fast food there… only slow food restaurants.
 
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