The English/Welsh Longbow

[Gallowglass]

Hi Lads,
Im doing a dissertation, 6000 words, on the English/Welsh Longbow. Im going to put a section concerning its history and origins. Any contributions would be appreciated. Ive also found out that it may have been brought to England by the Scandinavians. Anyone with any knowledge of this topic id be grateful.

Cheers

 

[Toltec]

Bows are very common in England from prehistoric times through to the medieval, but the classic medieval longbow is distinct for its length and power. There are lots debates over who invented the Longbow, the English or Welsh and people who write about it make the mistake of writing about the weapon itself as some king of mythical weapon. Basically it was a stick and a stick is not a revolutionary piece of technology, who cares who invented it.

What makes the longbow different from other bows is tactics and logistics, these are the innovation. Archers and missile men in general since ancient times had been superficial skirmishers but longbow tactics made them the main weapon, Agincourt was 6000 archers and 1000 men at arms. To do this Henry V had ordered 3 million arrows made before his journey to France. A whole structure of medieval society needed to be created, of bowyers, fletchers and smiths to make the equipment and them a training regime to create professional archers not a peasant levy. Finally someone has to make the bold move of saying, I am defying every convention of warfare and having an army of archers, and not get thought mad. then set up a country along these lines and pay for it. Longbow isn't a weapon, its a whole social change as drastic as the Marian Reforms for Rome.

 

[Teherean]

I think it'd be strange if the longbow came from Scandinavia, concidering the types of wood that were commonly available there their bows would have been made of wood that would splinter to easly to be used for the English longbow. English longbows were, as far as I know, mostly made of Yew, Ash, Elder and Taxus wood. Especially in northern scandinavia, inferior wood types prevailed (which is why Viking armies did not use bows as much).

My opinion is that the use of bows as a major weapon in English tactics first came along at Hastings, because the Normans used a large number of mainland archers to barrage the English army before the actual battle began (whereas no historic reports of Harold's army using any bows exist as far as I know). Normans were descendant from vikings, but using that link to think that the use of effective bows came from scandinavia is not sound. Whereas these norman bowmen carried something similar to, if not the, longbow, I'm not sure (but I think not).

 

[Kevinmeath]

On interesting point is that in order to use a Longbow the archer not only had to train for perhaps up to 10 years but had to develop a great deal of muscle, skeletons of presumed archers have shown them to have massive upper body strength.

To do this he would have to be well fed, this means that ,for some at least, of the common people they could not be as poor as often portrayed in popular history.

 

[Teherean]

On interesting point is that in order to use a Longbow the archer not only had to train for perhaps up to 10 years but had to develop a great deal of muscle, skeletons of presumed archers have shown them to have massive upper body strength.

To do this he would have to be well fed, this means that ,for some at least, of the common people they could not be as poor as often portrayed in popular history.

Good thinking. However, define 'well fed'. I think medieval metabolism was way different from today. People were in fact smaller than they are now, so maybe they needed less food, and therefore 'poor' people could have had acces to sufficient food for training.

Also, I seem to recall a medieval law stating that one in so many men in English communities were required to be proficient in the use of the longbow, to be mustered for war if necessary. Can someone confirm this?

 

[Toltec]

The 1363 archery law makes longbow practice compulsory for all English men. It still hasn't been revoked, as we used to explain to Epping forest rangers when I was a kid so they can't tell us to stop shooting.

Longbow practice didn't involve target shooting as Robin Hood implies but shooting the marks. It was military archery. Areas of ground were marked out with flags each one getting closer to the longbow men. Archers had to land arrows in the first mark, then the second and so on. It symbolised a cavalry charge closing on them. A modern target archer would be useless on a battlefield.

Here's the Fraternity of St George, they've been shooting for the last 500 years and still use their 500 year old rulebook today identically to medieval times. English longbow is one of the few live martial arts we practice today identically to medieval times.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZA0azPqAYA]Leeds Castle 4, Fraternity of St George - YouTube[/ame]

 

[The Spectator]

I heard that longbows were created by Spanish people who came across the Bay of Biscay on boats to anywhere they'd land because I guess there wasn't enough of them surviving up in those mountains in Spain.

There's actually been evidence that people living in Westernmost England and also Wales have DNA descending from people around the Iberian Peninsula. Or something like that.

To anyone reading this, what do you think, or to the author what do you think?

 

[Gallowglass]

Thanks guys.
Im not going to go into major detail on the history and origins as its only a 6000 word dissertation. But in saying that, thanks for the replies.
My own understanding is that the Norman archers at Hastings may have used short bows to harass the English lines. Also that the bows used by the native Welsh to counter the English invasions were crude self bows made of yew and are never described as longbows. The Welsh were skirmishing archers however I think that it was not until Edward I conquered Wales and began to rely on archers in his armies that the longbow came into prevalence and thus being a central part of English armies right until the age of solid gunpowder weaponry. Although I could be wrong

 

[sculptingman]

The 1363 archery law makes longbow practice compulsory for all English men. It still hasn't been revoked, as we used to explain to Epping forest rangers when I was a kid so they can't tell us to stop shooting.

Longbow practice didn't involve target shooting as Robin Hood implies but shooting the marks. It was military archery. Areas of ground were marked out with flags each one getting closer to the longbow men. Archers had to land arrows in the first mark, then the second and so on. It symbolised a cavalry charge closing on them. A modern target archer would be useless on a battlefield.

Here's the Fraternity of St George, they've been shooting for the last 500 years and still use their 500 year old rulebook today identically to medieval times. English longbow is one of the few live martial arts we practice today identically to medieval times.

Leeds Castle 4, Fraternity of St George - YouTube

A particularly good point. Everyone tends to think of target archery and apply that to the use of the Longbow.

The whole point of the long bow was a RAIN of arrows that were only accurate in Range. and general area.

Launch several thousand arrows a minute, you are counting on the arrow flight being randomized to create an relative even, and dense carpet of deadly missiles that arrive in the right area, at the right time.

The training involved being able to place an arrow at the correct distance at the correct time. You only had to be close to the mark... not dead on it.


Picture a charging calvary... archers had to estimate their speed over the ground and loft arrows at their greatest range to arrive at the general area the cavalry Would be traversing As their arrows arrived.

Then shoot again, only now the cavalry is in a different position, and possibly traveling at a different speed. Adjust their aim with every shot to compensate for a dynamically changing situation.

 

[Toltec]

Picture a charging calvary... archers had to estimate their speed over the ground and loft arrows at their greatest range to arrive at the general area the cavalry Would be traversing As their arrows arrived.

Then shoot again, only now the cavalry is in a different position, and possibly traveling at a different speed. Adjust their aim with every shot to compensate for a dynamically changing situation.

On different ground different cavalry would move at different speed, terrain features would effect cavalry direction, so would weather and cavalry type, horse type and armour would effect speed. All in all an archers got quite a job on his hands.

 

[Gaelic Chieftain]

As far as I know the oldest found Long Bow was in your county Waterford i'll try route out my notes and see if their is an online link. I think it was in Waterford City when a Viking City

 

[Haesten]

The story of the Berserker at Stamford Bridge suggests the bows in 1066 could not penetrate the hauberk of a huscarl.

This bow compares favorably with a lighter draw weight longbow.

Digital Digging ~ Features ~ The Meare Heath Bow Reconstruction

 

[Toltec]

The bow is a flat bow, which usually implies an inferior piece of wood or unseasoned wood. However the bow was made of Yew so inferior wood is out, this means most likely it was made from unseasoned wood which was the norm in prehistoric times. The guy who made the replica of the bow notes how difficult working season wood is with stone tools but goes for a seasoned wood replica, which makes no sense as if you were using seasoned Yew there would be no need to make a flat bow.

 

[Jon-Per]

I think it'd be strange if the longbow came from Scandinavia, concidering the types of wood that were commonly available there their bows would have been made of wood that would splinter to easly to be used for the English longbow. English longbows were, as far as I know, mostly made of Yew, Ash, Elder and Taxus wood. Especially in northern scandinavia, inferior wood types prevailed (which is why Viking armies did not use bows as much).

My opinion is that the use of bows as a major weapon in English tactics first came along at Hastings, because the Normans used a large number of mainland archers to barrage the English army before the actual battle began (whereas no historic reports of Harold's army using any bows exist as far as I know). Normans were descendant from vikings, but using that link to think that the use of effective bows came from scandinavia is not sound. Whereas these norman bowmen carried something similar to, if not the, longbow, I'm not sure (but I think not).

Yew was commonly used in scandinavia for making bows from the bronzeage and forward. Snorri attributes the art of archery as well as the tree Yew to the god Ull witch could be an indication of the bow as a important weapon, if something has it´s own god it would be quite a big deal. Well, Snorri aside there are quite often arrowheads found in warriors graves so I believe the bow played an important part in viking warfare. Not saying the longbow and the tactics of war it brought along came from the vikings, just wanted to add the part about the yew really.

 

[Kevinmeath]

Good thinking. However, define 'well fed'. I think medieval metabolism was way different from today. People were in fact smaller than they are now, so maybe they needed less food, and therefore 'poor' people could have had acces to sufficient food for training.

Also, I seem to recall a medieval law stating that one in so many men in English communities were required to be proficient in the use of the longbow, to be mustered for war if necessary. Can someone confirm this?

'Well Fed' means enough food (and I presume this means protein-- fish and meat) from a young age to put on enough muscle to fire the 'Longbow'.

Now what and how much 'common people ate' etc can be endlessly discussed and there were 'levels' of common people it wasn't a simple Rich or not split, not sure when 'Yeomen' appear but they are common folk but not poor and I have read had the 'best' diet as they could afford 'enough' food but not the sweet luxuries.

Also I presume soldiers could be better fed to get upto 'fighting weight'.

Also I think its important to think to remember IF the bow was indeed developed in Wales as tradition says it was by people (poor) facing armoured knights in hills vales and woodland with hit and run tactics rather than stand up fights.

 

[Haesten]

The bow is a flat bow, which usually implies an inferior piece of wood or unseasoned wood. However the bow was made of Yew so inferior wood is out, this means most likely it was made from unseasoned wood which was the norm in prehistoric times. The guy who made the replica of the bow notes how difficult working season wood is with stone tools but goes for a seasoned wood replica, which makes no sense as if you were using seasoned Yew there would be no need to make a flat bow.

They made the replica from seasoned yew using flint tools, it's impossible to tiller unseasoned yew into a bow.
The question was, if it was cut from the heart and sapwood that allows a powerful longbow, tension and compression on the back and belly. The bow was D shaped but the opposite way around to a medieval longbow.

 

[Haesten]

Yew was commonly used in scandinavia for making bows from the bronzeage and forward. Snorri attributes the art of archery as well as the tree Yew to the god Ull witch could be an indication of the bow as a important weapon, if something has it´s own god it would be quite a big deal. Well, Snorri aside there are quite often arrowheads found in warriors graves so I believe the bow played an important part in viking warfare. Not saying the longbow and the tactics of war it brought along came from the vikings, just wanted to add the part about the yew really.

Fish tailed arrow heads are found a lot in Viking archaeology, almost certainly used to cut ship's rigging.

Types of Arrowheads made by Hector Cole Arrowsmiths

Hector has a theory that they were used against horses as a bodkin would not cause immediate pain.

 

[Toltec]

They made the replica from seasoned yew using flint tools, it's impossible to tiller unseasoned yew into a bow.
The question was, if it was cut from the heart and sapwood that allows a powerful longbow, tension and compression on the back and belly. The bow was D shaped but the opposite way around to a medieval longbow.

Making a bow from unseasoned wood is no problem, you just have to season it before you tiller it. As for quality of Yew, this isn't an issue if you are making a flat bow, its a method for working poor quality wood.

 

[Haesten]

Fish tailed arrow heads are found a lot in Viking archaeology, almost certainly used to cut ship's rigging.

Types of Arrowheads made by Hector Cole Arrowsmiths

Hector has a theory that they were used against horses as a bodkin would not cause immediate pain.

It's worth noting that the earlier Anglo-Saxon an Viking arrow heads do not have the socket fitting to the arrow shaft. These would not have the same energy when trying to punch through a hide/mail hauberk as the shaft would start to split.

 

[Haesten]

Making a bow from unseasoned wood is no problem, you just have to season it before you tiller it. As for quality of Yew, this isn't an issue if you are making a flat bow, its a method for working poor quality wood.

The Meare Heath bow (42 lbs) had a velocity advantage of 9 metres per second over a longbow of similar poundage.

The bowyer knew what he was doing, but the method of construction would not allow the heavy poundage of a medieval longbow.