Shield of Achilles-Made of Wicker? Actually used by Alexander?

Joined Jul 2013
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Hey I am currently reading Illiad. I been watching a lot of shows on the Trojan war. It is said the Greeks were still using wicker shields. Was the shield of Achilles made of wicker?

Alexander in the Anabisis is believed to found the shield of Achilles from the battlesite and used it with him. Do you think this is even true? Why would anyone use an 800 year shield in combat? I think this is just propaganda and Alexander just picked up a random shield and used a better quality one for combat.
 
Joined Jul 2007
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Greeks definitely were still using wicker shields, but don't think of them like a basket or chair. Wicker was just the frame and innermost layer. They were covered with layers of hardened leather or stiffened linen (like the linen armour they used).

bodyshield50.jpg


bodyshield12.jpg
 
Joined Jul 2013
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Chattanooga
That Alexander actually found Achilles' shield is definitely a legend, but it is certainly possible that Alexander had a shield made based on Homer's description. There are a handful of modern reconstructions that are very impressive, including the Boiotian (an anachronistic design, base on the LBA dipylon posted above) shield that Colin Farrel is carried away on after having taken an arrow in the Oliver Stone film. There are other reconstructions using a round shape, round shields did exist at the time which utilized a central grip, so the round shape is also plausible.
 
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The Boeotian shields are made of bronze. I'd point out too that the fighting formations in the Iliad are very Hoplite like.
 
Joined Jul 2010
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According to Michael Wood's documentary, Alexander's phalangites used a relatively small bronze shield.
 
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Not all greeks were using shields of wicker. First time I heard of wicker shields anyway. I just know that Spartans did use shields made of steel which was actually so advantaging that is equal to having a nuclear bomb these days.
 
Joined Jan 2012
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Hey I am currently reading Illiad. I been watching a lot of shows on the Trojan war. It is said the Greeks were still using wicker shields. Was the shield of Achilles made of wicker?

Alexander in the Anabisis is believed to found the shield of Achilles from the battlesite and used it with him. Do you think this is even true? Why would anyone use an 800 year shield in combat? I think this is just propaganda and Alexander just picked up a random shield and used a better quality one for combat.

220px-Angelo_monticelli_shield-of-achilles.jpg


The shield's design as interpreted by Angelo Monticelli, from Le Costume Ancien ou Moderne, ca. 1820. [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shield_of_Achilles]Shield of Achilles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

No, it was not from wicker.

It was a metal round(> from the description of the construction according the text) shield consisted 2 parts of Tough copper, 2 parts of tin, and between the parts of copper and tin , exist a part of gold.

From Homer's Iliad ,
RHAPSODY S - [ book 18]
The armor of AchillesTough copper, tin , precious gold and silver puts the fire, then max ' anvilin the trunk and puts it in his right hand........

..................................................


From Homer's Iliad , Rhapsody In 478-608

And creates a first and greatest of robust shield everywhere adorning it.And puts around her bright Multilayer metal hoop, which ties the leash silver .Five metal layers has the shield. Carve on the many ornaments, with the wise of both hands of art ................


=======================

There some modern experiments studies, Ι quiq translate:


------------------------------------------------

Defensive weapons in the Homeric epics

S.A Paipetis : Professor , University of Patras Department of Mechanical and Aeronautical EngineeringDivision of Applied Mechanics , Advanced Materials and BioengineeringLaboratory of Applied Mechanicspaipetismech.upatras.gr


A leading example of advanced technological knowledge of modern materials science , which is the object of this is described in A rhapsody of the Iliad , where the poet presents Thetis visiting Hephaestus , to ask him to build an armor for Achilles .................
............................................
......................... the description of the shield built for Achilles, Hephaestus indicates the existence of advanced features ( stich. 474-481 ) :*


. He threw on the fire 590
enduring bronze and tin, precious gold and silver.
Next, he placed the great anvil on its block, took up
a massive hammer in one hand and in the other his tongs.

The first thing he created was a huge and sturdy shield,
all wonderfully crafted. Around its outer edge,
he fixed a triple rim, glittering in the light, [480]
attaching to it a silver carrying strap.
The shield had five layers. On the outer one,
with his great skill he fashioned many rich designs.


For the insiders of Materials Science of the above verses describe a laminated structure (sandwich) five superimposed layers , whose mechanical properties vary widely, and have maximum resistance to dynamic perforation.

The behavior of the shield described (H 259-272 ) in the battle of Achilles with Aeneas . The spear latter proved unable to penetrate the divine shield: he only managed to pierce the first two layers , while the three remaining repelled the spear . The anti-knock properties of the shield of Achilles confirmed by the description of the duel with his Asteropaios ( 161-165 F ) and also the duel with Hector (X 289-291 ) .

Second example is the shield of Ajax , also a laminated structure with seven successive layers from bovine skin and an exterior hard brass (H 273-283 ) .Both structures are part of the broad category of call ourselves composites , which are the basis of most modern high-tech construction , such as aerospace structures. It is worth noting that so far as the earliest reference in composites considered the description of the complaints of the Jews unto Pharaoh , that they granted sufficient quantities of straw to make bricks out of clay , which was their main task as shown in the book of Genesis .

Numerical and experimental study of the shieldsThe above two defensive provisions studied at the Laboratory Study with the help of numerical models , corresponding to two different mechanisms of energy-absorbing element variables .
For leather shield was further extensive experimental study , which will be described subsequently .

Both procedures used projectile energy equal to the kinetic energy of a modern javelin javelin thrower at world record , which is certainly higher than the energy javelin in close-quarters .
Also determined with the utmost accuracy and based on existing descriptions of the same epics and the archaeological evidence , the properties of the materials used. Were also made assumptions about the size of the shield and the thickness of the various layers , mainly driven by the maximum weight that can be lifted a warrior , even with highly developed body and toned .
The numerical model used for the theoretical study of the impact of the spear is shown in Figure 1 ( finite element method ) .

sxed1.jpg

Figure 1. Computer models for system analysis spear - shield

As mentioned , two different computational models for the species shields. specifically:

1. ( a) For the shield of Achilles : In successive metal layers alternating hard material (hard brass tin ie bronze ) and soft (pure gold ) . In this case, the absorbed energy of the penetrator from the plastic deformation of the soft material. The propagation of the crack through the thickness of the shield suspended and the shield is not punctured . The friction between the successive metal layers , such as bending deformation during impact , and that absorbs part of the impact energy , however, is not the main mechanism of damping , as is the shield of Ajax .

2. ( b) for the shield of Ajax : Here, the impact energy is absorbed by friction between the successive layers of the bovine skin form . In both cases proved that both structures, materials and data on the composition, exhibit a maximum resistance to penetration . The experimental study involved the shield of Ajax , where playback according to the descriptions of the Iliad at a reasonable cost levels . Here used bovine skin cut into various thicknesses and built a considerable number of tests at different combinations of thicknesses , maintaining however the total thickness to 7mm, eg 4 3 2 2 1. 4 1 1 1 etc. and their behavior was compared to drilling with the described construction of the total 7 layers , with 1 mm thickness each. Moreover , in all cases , from hard brass sheet 1 mm thick formed of the front shield . Used for piercing projectiles of hard brass, that the peak shown in Figure 2.

sxed2.jpg

Figure 2. Peak projectile before (left) and after (right) on impact

The specimens were in the form of a flat plate dimensions 120CH120 mm and was fastened with a special device, except when tightening the girth , and ensured the safety requirements of the experimenter . Finally shot rifle cannon performed ( Figure 3 ), which is the appropriate choice of air pressure projectile mass and barrel length satisfy the desired conditions . The projectile velocity measured with a precision dual beam laser, through which photocells , fueled successive transits of the projectile into a universal oscilloscope. The experimental results found in perfect agreement with the computational predictions.

sxed3.jpg

Figure 3. Τhe Air Rifle Cannon : Distinguished chamber pneumatic and trigger mechanism, the barrel and the clamping mechanism of the test.

Finally, the general conclusions that have emerged in the first phase of this ( ongoing ) study are also in full agreement with the teachings of the Iliad to the behavior in the battle of the defense provisions. Note that it is even possible to draw conclusions and further as to the construction details of the shields ( eg if the laminated materials were nailed together and what distances ) to achieve the desired deformation each time when impact of the punch , or a deeper study of the properties of materials available , etc.


---------------

Perchaps this gives the answer of the research of Alexander for that shield , not just as a symbol, 'made from gods' to a 'hero' that as also 'Alexander claim his descent from god(s)' but as also for possible technology reasons.

===============
 
Joined Jul 2013
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Chattanooga
Not all greeks were using shields of wicker. First time I heard of wicker shields anyway. I just know that Spartans did use shields made of steel which was actually so advantaging that is equal to having a nuclear bomb these days.

Actually no, the Spartans used the same aspides as all other Greek hoplites, a wood core covered with a thin sheet of bronze.

There is a rather far fetched theory that the Spartans had produced a steel spearhead with a higher carbon content and therefore harder than spearheads used by other Greeks, but there is absolutely no evidence to support this.

Wicker shields covered in hide were used from the bronze age through the Hellenistic, albeit primarily by light troops in later times.
 
Joined Jul 2013
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Chattanooga
According to Michael Wood's documentary, Alexander's phalangites used a relatively small bronze shield.


The Macedonian phalangites used a small round shield made of a wooden core with a bronze covering, the same components as the hoplite shield.
 
Joined Jul 2013
3,256 Posts | 193+
China
Its funny how people think Greek shields are actually made of solid metal.
 
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Chattanooga
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The Boeotian shields are made of bronze. I'd point out too that the fighting formations in the Iliad are very Hoplite like.


Nobody knows what the Boiotian shields were made of and or how they were made, perhaps a wooden core with a bronze covering but this seems unlikely considering the contours of the Boiotian as seen in the monumental record, a few reconstruction efforts have proven successful, wood slats and or a wooden frame with a hide covering seem the most plausible.

Could you be more specific concerning the fighting formations found in the Iliad? I haven't read anything even remotely similar to the much later hoplite phalanx formation, the conflicts in the Iliad are typically focused on duels between aristocratic heroes and or men fighting in relatively small groups.
 
Joined Jul 2013
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Chattanooga
Its funny how people think Greek shields are actually made of solid metal.

Yes and attempting to quell the many misconceptions of the ancient world, especially the Spartans, is like trying to put out a forest fire with a garden hose. One may save a tree or two, but Hollywood will continue to pour gasoline on the fire.
 
Joined Jul 2010
6,851 Posts | 10+
Not sure what it is
No gaseous metal. Greeks didn't play baseball in Olympics, molten rock was messy, and Mercury was a Roman god.:lol:

Which might explain why Greece was conquered by Rome - liquid metal makes relatively better shield than gaseous metals. :lol:
 
Joined Jul 2013
3,256 Posts | 193+
China
Which might explain why Greece was conquered by Rome - liquid metal makes relatively better shield than gaseous metals. :lol:
I believe Phillip V tried using a gas shield(the fog) against the Romans at Cynocephle. Unfortuantley he failed to coordinate his forces.
 

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