A True Fit for the Geography of Atlantis

[Teslatron]

You have to look at the general geographical conception of the myth. By comparison to the Ocean, the Mediterranean, as the sea enclosed in our oiokoumene, is just a harbour. Outside that sea an island can be found that is bigger than our oikoumene, and the Ocean is also pictured as containing other islands of a comparable nature. One has an inconceivably vast ocean dotted with continental 'islands'. Beyond the Ocean there is a boundless continent, which stand in the same relation to Atlantis, our oikoumene and all the comparable islands in the Ocean as the Ocean itself does to the Mediterranean Sea. One has patterns of vastly increasing scale, it is an imaginative construction. The Phaedo plays similarly with these ideas of scale, but to form a picture of the whole that is inconsistent with that in the Timaeus, not because Plato had a new theory of the world in the latter, but because he was developing a different mythical picture.

"Also I believe that the earth is very vast, and that we who dwell in the region extending from the river Phasis to the Pillars of Hēraklēs, [109b] along the borders of the sea, are just like ants or frogs about a marsh, and inhabit a small portion only, and that many others dwell in many like places. For I should say that in all parts of the earth there are hollows of various forms and sizes, into which the water and the mist and the air collect; and that the true earth is pure and in the pure sky, in which also are the stars— [109c] that is the sky which is commonly spoken of as the ether, of which this is but the sediment collecting in the hollows of the earth. But we who live in these hollows are deceived into the notion that we are dwelling above on the surface of the earth; which is just as if a creature who was at the bottom of the sea were to fancy that he was on the surface of the water, and that the sea was the sky through which he saw the sun and the other stars – he having never come to the surface by reason of his feebleness and sluggishness, [109d] and having never lifted up his head and seen, nor ever heard from one who had seen, this region which is so much purer and fairer than his own. Now this is exactly our case: for we are dwelling in a hollow of the earth, and fancy that we are on the surface; and the air we call the sky, and in this we imagine that the stars move. [109e] But this is also owing to our feebleness and sluggishness, which prevent our reaching the surface of the air: for if any man could arrive at the exterior limit, or take the wings of a bird and fly upward, like a fish who puts his head out and sees this world, he would see a world beyond; and, if the nature of man could sustain the sight, he would acknowledge that this was the place of the true sky [110a] and the true light and the true stars. For this earth, and the stones, and the entire region which surrounds us, are spoilt and corroded, like the things in the sea which are corroded by the brine; for in the sea too there is hardly any noble or perfect growth, but clefts only, and sand, and an endless slough of mud: and even the shore is not to be compared to the fairer sights of this world. And greater far is the superiority of the other."

This is just a poetic description of how Carl Sagan describes the greater cosmos and how insignificant we humans on Earth are.

 

[Calebxy]

You have to look at the general geographical conception of the myth. By comparison to the Ocean, the Mediterranean, as the sea enclosed in our oiokoumene, is just a harbour. Outside that sea an island can be found that is bigger than our oikoumene, and the Ocean is also pictured as containing other islands of a comparable nature. One has an inconceivably vast ocean dotted with continental 'islands'. Beyond the Ocean there is a boundless continent, which stand in the same relation to Atlantis, our oikoumene and all the comparable islands in the Ocean as the Ocean itself does to the Mediterranean Sea. One has patterns of vastly increasing scale, it is an imaginative construction. The Phaedo plays similarly with these ideas of scale, but to form a picture of the whole that is inconsistent with that in the Timaeus, not because Plato had a new theory of the world in the latter, but because he was developing a different mythical picture.

You have just repeated what you have said before, relating your interpretation of Plato's description. You have not provided any actual evidence of it.

By comparison to the Ocean, the Mediterranean, as the sea enclosed in our oiokoumene, is just a harbour.

Plato never refers to Oceanus. Throughout the Atlantis passages in both Timaeus and Critias, he uses the regular words for sea, like 'pontos' and 'pelagos' (sometimes interchangeably), which are usually used for the Mediterranean or parts thereof.

Outside that sea an island can be found that is bigger than our oikoumene, and the Ocean is also pictured as containing other islands of a comparable nature.

Plato never says that Atlantis is outside the Mediterranean Sea. He describes the 'pelagos' (sea) as having islands in it, which is indeed the case with the Mediterranean.

Beyond the Ocean there is a boundless continent

Or rather, what Plato says is that the 'pontos' (sea) is surrounded by the continent. That is the case with the Mediterranean Sea. In Critias, Plato uses 'the continent' to refer to what we can identify as Europe.

which stand in the same relation to Atlantis, our oikoumene and all the comparable islands in the Ocean as the Ocean itself does to the Mediterranean Sea.

Not found in Plato's account.

One has patterns of vastly increasing scale, it is an imaginative construction.

Again, not found in Plato's account.

 

[AlpinLuke]

To put some context here: The Greek perception of Libya and Asia at the time was probably smaller than the Iberian peninsula.
Libya is just a stretch of coastal shores on the Mediterranean, and Asia here is Asia Minor, not the modern Asian continent with India + China.
For all we know, they could've been talking about the Azores. Remember, Plato, Solon, or the priest as Sais never visited the purported island past the Pillars of Heracles, so they do not know its true size, they just know that there is an island past the straight that leads to other islands that leads to a continent.

Wait if the tale came from Egypt, we should wonder about Retjenu and Thnw. Egyptians didn't navigate so much, anyway they did it along the Mediterranean coasts and through the Red Sea. In very ancient times it was just the time to pass from point A to point B to determine the perception of distance and so of dimension with reference to a land. To be fair, still in Roman age they preferred to measure distances in days of march of the legions ...

This means that an isle like Sicily or Sardinia had enough coasts to be comparable with the costs of Retjenu and Thnw together.

 

[AlpinLuke]

But Sicily hasn't been always an isle during the glacial age.
If we think to when it was connected to the rest of the peninsula, we should put the famous columns between Sicily and Tunisia.
And this would mean that "Atlantis" was the "Greater Sardinia" [Sardinia was connected with Corsica].

 

[Linschoten]

You have just repeated what you have said before, relating your interpretation of Plato's description. You have not provided any actual evidence of it.

Plato never refers to Oceanus. Throughout the Atlantis passages in both Timaeus and Critias, he uses the regular words for sea, like 'pontos' and 'pelagos' (sometimes interchangeably), which are usually used for the Mediterranean or parts thereof.

Plato never says that Atlantis is outside the Mediterranean Sea. He describes the 'pelagos' (sea) as having islands in it, which is indeed the case with the Mediterranean.

Or rather, what Plato says is that the 'pontos' (sea) is surrounded by the continent. That is the case with the Mediterranean Sea. In Critias, Plato uses 'the continent' to refer to what we can identify as Europe.

Not found in Plato's account.

Again, not found in Plato's account.

This is a waste of time, you don't seem to be able to read a plain and clear narrative.

"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent."

τότε γὰρ πορεύσιμον ἦν τὸ ἐκεῖ πέλαγος: νῆσον γὰρ πρὸ τοῦ στόματος εἶχεν ὃ καλεῖτε, ὥς φατε, ὑμεῖς Ἡρακλέους στήλας, ἡ δὲ νῆσος ἅμα Λιβύης ἦν καὶ Ἀσίας μείζων, ἐξ ἧς ἐπιβατὸν ἐπὶ τὰς ἄλλας νήσους τοῖς τότε ἐγίγνετο πορευομένοις, ἐκ δὲ τῶν νήσων (25a) ἐπὶ τὴν καταντικρὺ πᾶσαν ἤπειρον τὴν περὶ τὸν ἀληθινὸν ἐκεῖνον πόντον. τάδε μὲν γάρ, ὅσα ἐντὸς τοῦ στόματος οὗ λέγομεν, φαίνεται λιμὴν στενόν τινα ἔχων εἴσπλουν: ἐκεῖνο δὲ πέλαγος ὄντως ἥ τε περιέχουσα αὐτὸ γῆ παντελῶς ἀληθῶς ὀρθότατ᾽ ἂν λέγοιτο ἤπειρος.

The island stands IN FRONT OF the straits called the PILLARS OF HERACLES, so plainly outside the Straits of Gibraltar, the Atlantic sea clearly being distinguished from the sea that lies within the straits, the Mediterranean. Okeanos was originally the name of the mythical encircling Ocean and of its eponym, and could later be applied to the outer sea, but not exclusively, because the Atlantic could also be called a pelagos (that in fact being the earlier usage); if a terminological distinction is drawn between the great outer sea and the inner Mediterranean sea, it is between pelagos or okeanos and pontos or thalassa, not between okeanos and pelagos. The sea outside the straits is our Atlantic, but the outer sea is imagined here as being much larger. than merely the Atlantic as we know it. After having previously referred to Atlantis as being sufficiently powerful to mount an expedition against the whole of Europe and Asia, he has now passed on the the geography of the matter, and describes this external island as being larger than Libya (i.e Africa) and Asia (I will give you a £100 if you can find any scholarly translation that translates meizon here as meaning more powerful). The text then says that there are other islands (evidently of comparable nature to Atlantis and Libya/Asia) in the outer sea, which must accordingly be vast, and that if you pass beyond these islands and the whole extent of the outer sea, you arrive at a continent which is set opposite all of this (ἐπὶ τὴν καταντικρὺ πᾶσαν ἤπειρον), to be imagined as encircling everything else, as is finally explicitly stated. That continent cannot possibly be the lands around the Mediterranean, because it is set beyond the outer sea and is boundless by comparison to any landmass contained within that sea. An absolutely clear distinction is drawn toward the end of the passage between the sea within the Straits and the outer sea, in which the Mediterranean is said to be like a mere harbour by comparison. The outer continent is similarly boundless compared to any island-continent set within the outer sea.

There is nothing unclear about any of this, and the Critias indicates the same:

"Let me begin by observing first of all, that nine thousand was the sum of years which had elapsed since the war which was said to have taken place between those who dwelt outside the pillars of Heracles and all who dwelt within them; this war I am going to describe. Of the combatants on the one side, the city of Athens was reported to have been the leader and to have fought out the war; the combatants on the other side were commanded by the kings of Atlantis, which, as I was saying, was an island greater in extent than Libya and Asia, and when afterwards sunk by an earthquake, became an impassable barrier of mud to voyagers sailing from hence to any part of the ocean."

The war was between those who lived outside the Pillars of Heracles, on an island in the sea beyond, and those who lived inside in the Mediterranean, led by the Athenians; and the huge size of the island is indicated once again. The text refers to the King of the Island of Atlantis, 'which island we said to be bigger than Liby and Asia'; no one who has any proper knowledge of ancient Greek would interpret 'meizon' as meaning 'more powerful' in the relevant Greek sentence.

There is nothing difficult in any of this, You really need to read the text with the help of good commentraies and reliable secondary literature, before setting off down rabbit-holes. I would recommend this book by a very fine scholar:

The ‘truth’ behind Atlantis – Christopher Gill on Plato’s Atlantis Story

Christopher Gill, author of Plato’s Atlantis Story, discusses the philosophical significance of Plato’s compelling Atlantis story and how the mythical city has captured our imagination …

liverpooluniversitypress.blog

 

[Naomasa298]

Britain is clearly Atlantis, because it's greater and more awesome than all of Europe, Africa and Asia put together.

OK, maybe not...

 

[AlpinLuke]

Doggerland ...

I know that this name can sound alien to many person, but it is a good candidate for a decent Atlantis [!].
The problems are: it wasn't exactly in front of the columns, it was in part covered by ice and it's improbable that a great civilization existed in a land which was where now there is the North Sea during the last great expansion of the ice caps.

 

[Willempie]

Britain is clearly Atlantis, because it's greater and more awesome than all of Europe, Africa and Asia put together.

OK, maybe not...

That is after all why it is called Great Britain. I don't understand why people haven't made that connection before.

 

[AlpinLuke]

That is after all why it is called Great Britain. I don't understand why people haven't made that connection before.

If they called it "Greater Asia+Libya" maybe it was clearer ...

 

[Teslatron]

This is a waste of time, you don't seem to be able to read a plain and clear narrative.

"This power came forth out of the Atlantic Ocean, for in those days the Atlantic was navigable; and there was an island situated in front of the straits which are by you called the Pillars of Heracles; the island was larger than Libya and Asia put together, and was the way to other islands, and from these you might pass to the whole of the opposite continent which surrounded the true ocean; for this sea which is within the Straits of Heracles is only a harbour, having a narrow entrance, but that other is a real sea, and the surrounding land may be most truly called a boundless continent."

τότε γὰρ πορεύσιμον ἦν τὸ ἐκεῖ πέλαγος: νῆσον γὰρ πρὸ τοῦ στόματος εἶχεν ὃ καλεῖτε, ὥς φατε, ὑμεῖς Ἡρακλέους στήλας, ἡ δὲ νῆσος ἅμα Λιβύης ἦν καὶ Ἀσίας μείζων, ἐξ ἧς ἐπιβατὸν ἐπὶ τὰς ἄλλας νήσους τοῖς τότε ἐγίγνετο πορευομένοις, ἐκ δὲ τῶν νήσων (25a) ἐπὶ τὴν καταντικρὺ πᾶσαν ἤπειρον τὴν περὶ τὸν ἀληθινὸν ἐκεῖνον πόντον. τάδε μὲν γάρ, ὅσα ἐντὸς τοῦ στόματος οὗ λέγομεν, φαίνεται λιμὴν στενόν τινα ἔχων εἴσπλουν: ἐκεῖνο δὲ πέλαγος ὄντως ἥ τε περιέχουσα αὐτὸ γῆ παντελῶς ἀληθῶς ὀρθότατ᾽ ἂν λέγοιτο ἤπειρος.

The island stands IN FRONT OF the straits called the PILLARS OF HERACLES, so plainly outside the Straits of Gibraltar, the Atlantic sea clearly being distinguished from the sea that lies within the straits, the Mediterranean. Okeanos was originally the name of the mythical encircling Ocean and of its eponym, and could later be applied to the outer sea, but not exclusively, because the Atlantic could also be called a pelagos (that in fact being the earlier usage); if a terminological distinction is drawn between the great outer sea and the inner Mediterranean sea, it is between pelagos or okeanos and pontos or thalassa, not between okeanos and pelagos. The sea outside the straits is our Atlantic, but the outer sea is imagined here as being much larger. than merely the Atlantic as we know it. After having previously referred to Atlantis as being sufficiently powerful to mount an expedition against the whole of Europe and Asia, he has now passed on the the geography of the matter, and describes this external island as being larger than Libya (i.e Africa) and Asia (I will give you a £100 if you can find any scholarly translation that translates meizon here as meaning more powerful). The text then says that there are other islands (evidently of comparable nature to Atlantis and Libya/Asia) in the outer sea, which must accordingly be vast, and that if you pass beyond these islands and the whole extent of the outer sea, you arrive at a continent which is set opposite all of this (ἐπὶ τὴν καταντικρὺ πᾶσαν ἤπειρον), to be imagined as encircling everything else, as is finally explicitly stated. That continent cannot possibly be the lands around the Mediterranean, because it is set beyond the outer sea and is boundless by comparison to any landmass contained within that sea. An absolutely clear distinction is drawn toward the end of the passage between the sea within the Straits and the outer sea, in which the Mediterranean is said to be like a mere harbour by comparison. The outer continent is similarly boundless compared to any island-continent set within the outer sea.

There is nothing unclear about any of this, and the Critias indicates the same:

"Let me begin by observing first of all, that nine thousand was the sum of years which had elapsed since the war which was said to have taken place between those who dwelt outside the pillars of Heracles and all who dwelt within them; this war I am going to describe. Of the combatants on the one side, the city of Athens was reported to have been the leader and to have fought out the war; the combatants on the other side were commanded by the kings of Atlantis, which, as I was saying, was an island greater in extent than Libya and Asia, and when afterwards sunk by an earthquake, became an impassable barrier of mud to voyagers sailing from hence to any part of the ocean."

The war was between those who lived outside the Pillars of Heracles, on an island in the sea beyond, and those who lived inside in the Mediterranean, led by the Athenians; and the huge size of the island is indicated once again. The text refers to the King of the Island of Atlantis, 'which island we said to be bigger than Liby and Asia'; no one who has any proper knowledge of ancient Greek would interpret 'meizon' as meaning 'more powerful' in the relevant Greek sentence.

There is nothing difficult in any of this, You really need to read the text with the help of good commentraies and reliable secondary literature, before setting off down rabbit-holes. I would recommend this book by a very fine scholar:

The ‘truth’ behind Atlantis – Christopher Gill on Plato’s Atlantis Story

Christopher Gill, author of Plato’s Atlantis Story, discusses the philosophical significance of Plato’s compelling Atlantis story and how the mythical city has captured our imagination …

liverpooluniversitypress.blog

I like how you say there is "nothing unclear" then present your interpretation that appears NOWHERE in the text, here are specific sentences of your interpretation:

he described as being larger than the whole of the known world (i.e. the European-African-Asian landmass), and so absolutely enormous.

You have to look at the general geographical conception of the myth. By comparison to the Ocean, the Mediterranean, as the sea enclosed in our oiokoumene, is just a harbour. Outside that sea an island can be found that is bigger than our oikoumene, and the Ocean is also pictured as containing other islands of a comparable nature. One has an inconceivably vast ocean dotted with continental 'islands'. Beyond the Ocean there is a boundless continent, which stand in the same relation to Atlantis, our oikoumene and all the comparable islands in the Ocean as the Ocean itself does to the Mediterranean Sea. One has patterns of vastly increasing scale, it is an imaginative construction.

1. Show me where in the text it describes it bigger than the "whole known world". The passage specifically says bigger than Libya and Asia, that at the time of Plato, was considered less than half of the world at the MOST charitable interpretation (Libya+ Asia excludes all of Europe, Greece, Italy, Egypt, Iberia, etc).
2. "Outside that sea an island can be found that is bigger than our oikoumene" - again show me this passage.
3. "other islands of a comparable nature. One has an inceivably vast ocean with continental islands." - again show me in the passage where it mentions the size of the other islands.

 

[Linschoten]

I like how you say there is "nothing unclear" then present your interpretation that appears NOWHERE in the text, here are specific sentences of your interpretation:



1. Show me where in the text it describes it bigger than the "whole known world". The passage specifically says bigger than Libya and Asia, that at the time of Plato, was considered less than half of the world at the MOST charitable interpretation (Libya+ Asia excludes all of Europe, Greece, Italy, Egypt, Iberia, etc).
2. "Outside that sea an island can be found that is bigger than our oikoumene" - again show me this passage.
3. "other islands of a comparable nature. One has an inceivably vast ocean with continental islands." - again show me in the passage where it mentions the size of the other islands.

Libya and Asia is used here as a shorthand for the oiokoumene, the whole inhabited world, north and south of the level of the Mediterranean. I already pointed out to you that 'Libya' here doesn't mean our Libya, to the west of Egypt! Atlantis is larger than our world, in so far as it is bigger than the oikoumene. I think it can be inferred that the other islands in the outer sea are comparably large, but I wouldn't insist on that.

I'm not going to waste any more time on this, if you don't have the requisite knowledge to be able to interpret a text of this kind, you need to read it with the help of commentaries by people who do.

 

[Teslatron]

Libya and Asia is used here as a shorthand for the oiokoumene, the whole inhabited world, north and south of the level of the Mediterranean. I already pointed out to you that 'Libya' here doesn't mean our Libya, to the west of Egypt! Atlantis is larger than our world, in so far as it is bigger than the oikoumene. I think it can be inferred that the other islands in the outer sea are comparably large, but I wouldn't insist on that.

I'm not going to waste any more time on this, if you don't have the requisite knowledge to be able to interpret a text of this kind, you need to read it with the help of commentaries by people who do.

Libya and Asia is not used here as a shorthand for oikoumene, as oikoumene always also includes Europe. I've found reference to eastern oikoumene that sometimes includes Libya + Asia.
Show me evidence otherwise.

 

[Linschoten]

This is Paul Friedlaender's diagram of the geography of the Timaeus and Critias myth; he does in fact show the other islands as being quite small, but if one could pass from one to another from Atlantis to get to the encircling continent as Plato says, I think that one would at any rate have to make the outer sea much larger than it is presented as being here, with islands between Atlantis and the continent.

 

[Teslatron]

View attachment 66925

This is Paul Friedlaender's diagram of the geography of the Timaeus and Critias myth; he does in fact show the other islands as being quite small, but if one could pass from one to another from Atlantis to get to the encircling continent as Plato says, I think that one would at any rate have to make the outer sea much larger than it is presented as being here, with islands between Atlantis and the continent.

Yes, there should be islands between Atlantis and the continent and the Atlantic ocean should be larger. Atlantis island should be smaller, the size of Libya and Asia, and not include Europe (since we are trying to draw a literal text map here, not interpretations).
The true ocean (which Atlantic ocean is a part of) should be bigger.

If we map the literal map to a real geography, Atlantis would be somewhere here, due West from Atlantes:
Azores and Canaries can be candidates as well. Azores were thought to be uninhabited and discovered by the Portuguese, but it appears not to be the case and they may have had human presence ~2000 years before. I have no idea who would be crazy enough to go all the way out West and explore the Atlantic except the Phoenicians. Apparently the Azores may have been independently re-discovered 4+ times in the past.

 

[Emperor of Wurttemburg 43]

Britain is clearly Atlantis, because it's greater and more awesome than all of Europe, Africa and Asia put together.

OK, maybe not...

Perhaps the legend of Atlantis was a prophecy about Florida.

 

[Silesius Smithee]

Indeed. Plato is perfectly familiar with the word for continent, ‘epeiros’, and he uses it in a number of places in Timaeus and Critias. Yet he never uses it in reference to Atlantis, only ever calling it an island.

In Plato's time, "Island" meant a land mass surrounded by waters. "Continent" meant a land mass that bounded the waters. I *think*, but am not sure, that Plato understood the earth as a sphere not flat. (And I'm still not sure who is standing standing at the south pole keeping it from draining into the aether. Probably someone dutch. (Tho, the last time *I* tried to stick my finger in a ...., I got slapped clear into next Tuesday. And I'm not even Dutch.) . Mistranslations Galore.

 

[Silesius Smithee]

Yes, there should be islands between Atlantis and the continent and the Atlantic ocean should be larger. Atlantis island should be smaller, the size of Libya and Asia, and not include Europe (since we are trying to draw a literal text map here, not interpretations).
The true ocean (which Atlantic ocean is a part of) should be bigger.

If we map the literal map to a real geography, Atlantis would be somewhere here, due West from Atlantes:
Azores and Canaries can be candidates as well. Azores were thought to be uninhabited and discovered by the Portuguese, but it appears not to be the case and they may have had human presence ~2000 years before. I have no idea who would be crazy enough to go all the way out West and explore the Atlantic except the Phoenicians. Apparently the Azores may have been independently re-discovered 4+ times in the past.

View attachment 66926

I gotta rule out out the Canaries. I've been there, back in the day when you could still see scorch-marks on the runway of The World's Worst Plane Crash (1977) . Too close. You can (allegedly) on a clear day see them from Morocco. Plato would have know that they hadn't sunk.

 

[Silesius Smithee]

Yes, there should be islands between Atlantis and the continent and the Atlantic ocean should be larger. Atlantis island should be smaller, the size of Libya and Asia, and not include Europe (since we are trying to draw a literal text map here, not interpretations).
The true ocean (which Atlantic ocean is a part of) should be bigger.

If we map the literal map to a real geography, Atlantis would be somewhere here, due West from Atlantes:
Azores and Canaries can be candidates as well. Azores were thought to be uninhabited and discovered by the Portuguese, but it appears not to be the case and they may have had human presence ~2000 years before. I have no idea who would be crazy enough to go all the way out West and explore the Atlantic except the Phoenicians. Apparently the Azores may have been independently re-discovered 4+ times in the past.

View attachment 66926

THESE TWO would seem to hit the right notes, making allowances. I need it to be (relatively) "large", and I need a mountain. What do we KNOW about them?

 

[Calebxy]

Another flaw, in my opinion, with the traditional interpretation is the idea that the phrase "was located before [from 'pro', meaning 'before' or 'in front of'] the Pillars of Heracles" should be interpreted as meaning that it was outside the Pillars, rather than inside.

 

[Calebxy]

From Homer’s Iliad, 22.109-110, using the same Greek word (‘pro’) that Plato used:

“for me it were better far to meet Achilles man to man and shay him, and so get me home, or myself perish gloriously before the city.”

Are we supposed to understand this as meaning that he wanted to die on the other side of the city from the position where he was currently speaking? How ridiculous. The sense of ‘before [or, in front of] the city’ is perfectly obvious, and it doesn’t mean on the ‘other side’ or ‘beyond’.

Yet in the case of Atlantis, for some reason, it being an island which was situated ‘before the Pillars of Heracles’ is invariably interpreted as meaning that it was on the other side of the pillars from the speaker’s perspective. A persistent interpretation, but one that can easily be rejected for the opposite in my opinion. I believe that Atlantis was ‘before/in front of the Pillars of Heracles’ in the sense that it was on the same side of them as the speaker.

This is one of the four indications, in my opinion, that Plato’s account genuinely always intended to place Atlantis within the Mediterranean Sea.