Why did the German speaking people produce so many composers?

[Solidaire]

Bach, Beethoven, Schubert, Handel, Mozart, Wagner, Haydn...

Is there a possible explanation for this phenomenon? Somehow I don't think it was pure coincidence.

Perhaps religion played some role? Any thoughts?

 

[Naomasa298]

But so did the Italians - Vivaldi, Verdi, Puccini, Torelli, Rossini, Paganini, etc.

 

[Fireatwill]

I can only say it was due to their racial superiority...

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxrWz9XVvls"]Dr. Strangelove - YouTube[/ame]


But jokes aside, what was great music once sounds bland and boring after Jazz took the same instruments and created something altogether revolutionary... I like Beethoven but I don't listen to him now, because it makes me feel old and stuffy...

 

[Fireatwill]

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDQpZT3GhDg]Duke Ellington - It don't mean a thing (1943) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Zeno]

Well go and start a thread about Jazz then. I look into this one to find German classical composers, go sell your wares somewhere else please.

 

[Fireatwill]

Why would I want to sell pure gold?

Secondly, if you don't know about German composers, yet, then you're too green to speak about music.


I'm a fun of German philosophers, just to be fair.

 

[Fireatwill]

But this is an interesting topic, for example 20th century music is completely dominated by US and as far as singers and bands, the British have had a lot of talent.

Germany today, or in fact for a very long time now has not produced any major musical talent. In fact they listen to David Hasselhoff for Pete's sake!

 

[steve53]

Racial superiority?


Haaa! Just kidding!

 

[Naomasa298]

Time for a lame joke.

You want to know the truth about Germanic composers? You can't Handel the truth!

 

[Guaporense]

Germany today, or in fact for a very long time now has not produced any major musical talent. In fact they listen to David Hasselhoff for Pete's sake!

Well, everything that I listem to these days is German music, just not German classical music, more like German heavy metal:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekUPVlAcVw8"]Kreator - Pleasure To Kill Live - YouTube[/ame]

Though nearly all heavy bands these days sing in english, still the influence of the German bands on the development of heavy metal is huge. Of course, you, being Canadian, has probalby listened much more to American rock bands than German rock bands, that's normal, it is a bias from living in an american satellite.

Now when speaking of major musical talent do you talk about what, exactly? Beethoven? Well, nobody ever born outside continental Europe has ever reached the same league as Beethoven or Mozart.

American contribution to music has been restricted to popular music and actually the European contribution to the development of popular music is equal or greater than the American contribution. The Beatles, Rolling Stones, etc have had a massive contribution to modern popular music, greater than any single american band or individual.

 

[daftone]

Probably a cultural thing. The German and Italian rulers put their money behind music so the composers came out of the woodwork. If your bach and music pays then your going to spend your time composing masterworks. But if music didn't pay then your going to put your efforts into something that does. England put their money behind playwrights instead of composers so we get great writers like Shakespeare, marlow, Chaucer etc.

 

[Solidaire]

But so did the Italians - Vivaldi, Verdi, Puccini, Torelli, Rossini, Paganini, etc.

I know, I know, but -call me biased- with the exception of Vivaldi, I wouldn't place all the other Italians in the "first league". The Russian school is also very strong, but I still consider the Germans the greatest.

Maybe it's just personal taste, but I believe none reached the musical genius of Beethoven, Mozart, Bach and Schubert.

 

[etamaze]

I love German composers true artists you know some had disabilities but played good music. I also like french like F.F chopin though they were much later.

 

[Naomasa298]

I know, I know, but -call me biased- with the exception of Vivaldi, I wouldn't place all the other Italians in the "first league". The Russian school is also very strong, but I still consider the Germans the greatest.

Maybe it's just personal taste, but I believe none reached the musical genius of Beethoven, Mozart, Bach and Schubert.

I enjoy German composers too, but music from Rossini's The Barber of Seville is also amongst the most recognisable.

It's a self-selecting group. Composers from the Germanic countries were popular amongst the upper circles of society during the classical period, so we know more about them today than other composers. It's a bit like saying why has Britain produced so many good Britpop bands.

 

[Zeno]

I love German composers true artists you know some had disabilities but played good music. I also like french like F.F chopin though they were much later.

Fryderyk Franciszek Chopin was Polish though...

 

[etamaze]

so thats his name well either way european composers as a whole im not so big on looking them up just hearing their music

 

[Zeno]

so thats his name well either way european composers as a whole im not so big on looking them up just hearing their music

Well i'm not too big on them either. I just know he is something of a national hero in Poland, and is known for the technical difficulty of his works.

 

[DAS44]

I think the established romantic system that came about with Beethoven, Bach, and their contemporaries became so dominant of the musical order and led to oh so many other composers of the same lineage, national pride, musical taste etc. Purely speculation on my part, I could be completely wrong.

We can't be forgetting those of other countries of course!
Manuel de Falla (doesn't this literally translate to Manuel of Fail..? Could be wrong)
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAeuGPNgcx8]Manuel de Falla - Nights in the Gardens of Spain PART 1 of 2 - GONZALO SORIANO - YouTube[/ame]

Erik Satie
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLFVGwGQcB0]Erik Satie - Gnossienne No.1 - YouTube[/ame]

And of course Rachmaninoff, fantastic pianist to say the least
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8l37utZxMQ]Sergei Rachmaninoff plays his Piano Concerto No. 2 - YouTube[/ame]

Shouldn't this go in the art and cultural history section?

 

[Bart Dale]

I think much of the prevalence of Germans in classical music was that until the 19th century, Germany was divided up into many different countries, each with their own court, and with their own court musicians. That simply gave more job opportunities for composers, and more people would try to compose. Even if you were not a Bach or Beethoven, you were more likely to make a living as a composer in Germany for one of the local kingdom courts, so you were more likely to try composing classical music.

In France and England, there was only one royal court, so there were just fewer opportunities for composers.

Same thing for Italians and Opera. Opera was very popular in Italy, and there were more opportunities to compose for an opera, than in England. Hence, you see a lot more famous Italian composer of operas than you do English ones.

Keep in mind, that for every genius, there a lot more merely talented people. If only the very best can make a living, that might discourage others from entering the field in the first place. For example, Holland and the low countries produced a lot of famous painters around the time of Rembrandt. At that time, a typical portrait painter could make as much as good carpenter, so even if you weren't a genius, you could make a good living. But nowdays, most painters don't make much money. A few lucky ones can make a lot, but most starve. Someone who might be tempted to became a painter if he was certain to at least make a living, might not try if he knew the odds were that he couldn't.

 

[HadleyH]

Probably a cultural thing. The German and Italian rulers put their money behind music so the composers came out of the woodwork....

I agree.

To expand on that theory:

"In Germany music became a central part of the religion and was well funded, and the audience participated. It likewise became central to the educational system as it wasn’t elsewhere, so the general level of musical literacy and competence was very high. Secular princes funded music for prestige and also because they enjoyed it, and the bourgeoisie likewise spent money on music when they became a factor. (Bach through Beethoven mark a social trend from patronage to work for the market.) In short, during all that period Germany dedicated itself diligently to music in a way other countries didn’t."

http://www.thevalve.org/go/valve/article/why_are_the_greatest_composers_all_german/