1200 bc the end of civilisation.

Corbulo · Nov 29, 2013

Having spent most of my time as a student (give or take the odd sesh or ten in the Students Union) and some time before and after studying Greco-Roman History. I have recently found myself becoming more and more interested in the great "Bronze Age" civilisations which flourished in the "Near East, Mesopotamia, Egypt, The Aegean and the ancient Levant.

Although I find the whole topic mostly fascinating? I seem to becoming more and more drawn to the strange and still unexplained end of this great epoch.

In or around the year 1200 BC great and devastating changes appear to have not only changed the political and social topography of these regions but it seems that many if not all bar one of the great civilisations disappear from the historical record.

Many of these civilisations were not just local powers but in their own time global "Super Powers". Great peoples such as the "Hittites", "The Minoans", "The Myceneans" and many of the "Cannanite" cultures seem to either go into free fall and disappear or remain hollow shells of their former past.
The only major power in the region to survive is Egypt, yet even she is so hard pushed that she never quite recovers and is so exhausted that she slips into a slow terminal decline.

Many noted scholars beginning probably with "Homer" have had their take on the the reasons why this immense change occured?

Today many historians and Archeaologists have proposed several reasons why the Western Aegean and the Near East was thrust into a dark age.

The main reasons put forth are:

1)Volcanic eruptions
2) Earthquakes
3) Climate change
4)Human migration
5) Social disintegration

For my own 2 pence worth I would say its a factor of all five
We know that the Island of Thera a prosperous off-shoot of the Minoan Empire probably imploded around this time ? This was a major catastrophe which should have caused uncontrolled natural disaster on the region. The repercussions of an implotion on that scale can hardly be imagined? This Volcanic eruption may have been the cause of all the subsequent disasters that seem to have followed ?

The "Sea Peoples" seem to have had a major influence in this period. Were they mere raiders in the "Viking" mode or were they part of a mass immigraton of various peoples misplaced by the disaster ?
We know that the Doric peoples invaded Greece about the same time were they on the march because of the repercussions?

Climate change and human migration following such a fall out may explain why these great empires were oppressed from within and with out ? Many scholars now believe that the orginal "Izraelites" were not refugees from Egypt but disgruntled dissenters from Canaanite cities? Who left their "God Kings" to star a new?

What do you guys think ?
Do you have any answers to why these great amazing cultures sank overnight ? And why did the world fall into a dark age when men in Greece forgot how to build even a simple stone temple?

pikeshot1600 · Nov 29, 2013

I doubt there are any answers. Your list of reasons makes sense, but it must remain conjecture. A catastrophic volcanic event (somewhere) could have resulted in climate change, even if only briefly in historic terms. People don't eat in historic terms; they eat every day, and those surviving famine may have had to migrate.

Such conditions may have led to social disintegration. Priests and kings were used to "having the favor of Gods," and without that, their position was diminished - or worse.

As to earthquakes, those are localized. However, they are pretty effective as destroyers of 'civilization' like city-states, or localities depending on towns and some sort of infrastructure to support them.

There were like eight or nine "Troys" and many were evidently destroyed by earthquake/fire or by war. Who knows how many exactly? There are no reliable historical sources.

So it is all conjecture, but interesting conjecture. I think it is interesting anyway.

AssyrianMelodies · Nov 29, 2013

Migrations are one of the main causes as after all migrations have been one of the most destructive things in history for Human Civilization

funakison · Nov 29, 2013

Santorini must be high on the list of suspects although the dates dont exactly mesh.

Frank81 · Nov 29, 2013

I think this is one of the BIG questions of history.

The collapse was truelly gigantic, it affected also Europe, where brilliant Bronze cultures in Britain, Iberia and many other places collapsed.

From my point of view, the Sea Peoples were a consequence, rather than a cause of the problem.

The large scale of devastation could only be caused by a long lasting, intense climate change toward cold conditions. Warm conditions increase rainfall and accelerate plant growth, reducing both hot and cold deserts, allowing a high productivity of agriculture. Cold temperatures have exactly the opposite effect, increasing deserts, reducing plant growth and undermining agriculture productivity in every latitude.

Populations of the Bronze age, specially those of marginal areas, the first to be affected by decrease of productivity, should face a desperate situation, which resulted in the moving of large groups of people trying to survive. The subsequent conflicts contributed to the general oblivion.

Areas most affected by societal collapse, as Greece, stept back from civillization, "forgeting" writing and statal organization.

pikeshot1600 · Nov 29, 2013

funakison said:
Santorini must be high on the list of suspects although the dates dont exactly mesh.

Those Mediterranean volcanoes are amateurs compared to the havoc wrought by the Krakatoa types.

Seriously, climate change caused by some enormous volcanic activity would be quite a disastrous occurrence. It could have happened anywhere and still caused huge changes - loss of multiple harvests, etc.

funakison · Nov 29, 2013

So do we have a date for the flooding of the Black Sea

pikeshot1600 · Nov 29, 2013

funakison said:
So do we have a date for the flooding of the Black Sea

Best guess is like 5000 BC or earlier. Bronze use dates from somewhere around 3000 BC in Mesopotamia, and did not reach the Med until about 1500 BC (or so says the Internet).

The Greek "Dark Ages" were something like 1200 BC until about 900 BC. That would correlate with Corbulo's and Frank81's comments. Agricultural distress and social disintegration do not promote civilization.

The Black Sea seems to have existed inside a smaller area before the sea levels rose - whenever that was. 7,000 years ago is as good a guess as any. That would indicate some catastrophe around 5000 BC and another around 1200 BC

dreamregent · Nov 29, 2013

I think there are a variety of reasons for the Bronze Age Collapse as well. However, to speak to some of your specific points...

Corbulo said:
We know that the Island of Thera a prosperous off-shoot of the Minoan Empire probably imploded around this time ? This was a major catastrophe which should have caused uncontrolled natural disaster on the region. The repercussions of an implotion on that scale can hardly be imagined? This Volcanic eruption may have been the cause of all the subsequent disasters that seem to have followed ?

The date for the eruption of Thera has been determined and verified through a number of different means to ~1620 BC, give or take. The data is really in pretty good agreement for this age range. Therefore, it is not likely that this was much of a contributing factor of the (more or less) sudden collapse that occurred 400 to 500 years later. We must remember that Egypt's most prosperous period (the New Kingdom) actually arose after the eruption (~1550 BC). We see the same thing with the Hittites: their empire began its rise immediately following the eruption...same thing with the Mycenaeans as well. The Minoan Civilization was certainly affected rather severely by the eruption (tsunamis, fallout, etc) but even they managed to survive it. Although, they were weakened enough that they became susceptible to a takeover from the Greek mainland after about 200 years.

Corbulo said:
The "Sea Peoples" seem to have had a major influence in this period. Were they mere raiders in the "Viking" mode or were they part of a mass immigraton of various peoples misplaced by the disaster? We know that the Doric peoples invaded Greece about the same time were they on the march because of the repercussions?

I believe the first mentions of peoples included in what we know as the "Sea People" are found within the Amarna Letters, which were written ~250 years after the Minoan eruption. Then there is another 175 years or so until the Sea People "invasion" of Egypt is recorded on the wall of Medinet Habu. It's important to remember that the Sea Peoples were not a homogenous group. They've all been lumped together but they were composed of different groups at different times and show up in the historical record intermittently over a very long period of time. Therefore, it's rather difficult to establish that they were moving around due to a single cause.

I think that sorting out the Bronze Age Collapse to a high degree of accuracy will be impossible. Clearly, it happened rather suddenly. However, I'm not sure that a single overall reason exists.

Corbulo · Nov 29, 2013

dreamregent said:
I think there are a variety of reasons for the Bronze Age Collapse as well. However, to speak to some of your specific points...

The date for the eruption of Thera has been determined and verified through a number of different means to ~1620 BC, give or take. The data is really in pretty good agreement for this age range. Therefore, it is not likely that this was much of a contributing factor of the (more or less) sudden collapse that occurred 400 to 500 years later. We must remember that Egypt's most prosperous period (the New Kingdom) actually arose after the eruption (~1550 BC). We see the same thing with the Hittites: their empire began its rise immediately following the eruption...same thing with the Mycenaeans as well. The Minoan Civilization was certainly affected rather severely by the eruption (tsunamis, fallout, etc) but even they managed to survive it. Although, they were weakened enough that they became susceptible to a takeover from the Greek mainland after about 200 years.

I believe the first mentions of peoples included in what we know as the "Sea People" are found within the Amarna Letters, which were written ~250 years after the Minoan eruption. Then there is another 175 years or so until the Sea People "invasion" of Egypt is recorded on the wall of Medinet Habu. It's important to remember that the Sea Peoples were not a homogenous group. They've all been lumped together but they were composed of different groups at different times and show up in the historical record intermittently over a very long period of time. Therefore, it's rather difficult to establish that they were moving around due to a single cause.

I think that sorting out the Bronze Age Collapse to a high degree of accuracy will be impossible. Clearly, it happened rather suddenly. However, I'm not sure that a single overall reason exists.

I understand that the "Sea Peoples" were very much diffirent peoples, thats what makes the tale all so intriguing?? What you say makes sense. The way I was starting to think was global movement! Much in the same way the Roman Empire encountered 1000 odd years later !!... The history and the science seem to speculate that for some reason people wanted to move in large communties at this time !! ....."The Sea Peoples" ....plus the likes of the "Dorians " by land moving into Mycenean Greece!!..........There seems to be more than a coincidence ?

Frank81 · Nov 29, 2013

The event was probably not triggered by volcanoes, which can cause devastating effects in the short term, but by natural climatic variability.

There are some studies on the subject:

The influence of climatic change on the Late Bronze Age Collapse and the Greek Dark Ages

Abstract
Between the 13th and 11th centuries BCE, most Greek Bronze Age Palatial centers were destroyed and/or abandoned. The following centuries were typified by low population levels. Data from oxygen-isotope speleothems, stable carbon isotopes, alkenone-derived sea surface temperatures, and changes in warm-species dinocysts and formanifera in the Mediterranean indicate that the Early Iron Age was more arid than the preceding Bronze Age. A sharp increase in Northern Hemisphere temperatures preceded the collapse of Palatial centers, a sharp decrease occurred during their abandonment. Mediterranean Sea surface temperatures cooled rapidly during the Late Bronze Age, limiting freshwater flux into the atmosphere and thus reducing precipitation over land. These climatic changes could have affected Palatial centers that were dependent upon high levels of agricultural productivity. Declines in agricultural production would have made higher-density populations in Palatial centers unsustainable. The ‘Greek Dark Ages’ that followed occurred during prolonged arid conditions that lasted until the Roman Warm Period.

http://www.leilan.yale.edu/pubs/files/Kaniewski_et_al_ACC_East_Med_2010_QR.pdf

The major environmental shift, interpreted as a result of lower
amounts of precipitation in the Syrian coastal area (Figs. 3A and B)
since 2970± 40 14C yr BP (Beta-229048), is synchronous with a dry
southern basin and a low lake level in the northern basin for the Dead
Sea (Bookman et al., 2004). The lowest value of the northern lake was
reached at 3350 cal yr BP, before the onset of the Syrian climatic shift,
and the level stays low throughout the drought event. The change in
rainfall inducing a shortage of water supply in coastal Syria is derived
from a synthesis of regional palaeoenvironmental proxy data, taking
into account climatic signals and the temporal resolution represented
in the records also correlated with minima in the Tigris and Euphrates
river discharges from 1150 to 950 BC (Kay and Johnson, 1981;
Neumann and Parpola, 1987; Alpert and Neumann, 1989), and with
higher δ18O values in the Ashdod coast record (Schilman et al., 2001,
2002). During this period, the Babylonian and Assyrian empires go
into decline between 1200 and 900 BC (Brinkman, 1968; Neumann
and Parpola, 1987). Written sources from Babylon mention crop
failures, famine, outbreak of plague and repeated nomad incursions at
that time (Neumann and Parpola, 1987). The historically deﬁned Dark
Age (1200–825 BC) (Weiss, 1982; Haggis, 1993) is synchronous with
the period of drought and diminishing crop production (Fig. 3C)
documented here.

In short, cold and dry enviroment, specially dry, with long lasting droughts. As a result, hungry peoples on the move, to accomplish some of the most remembered actions of the human history.

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1200 bc the end of civilisation.

Corbulo

pikeshot1600

AssyrianMelodies

funakison

Frank81

pikeshot1600

funakison

pikeshot1600

dreamregent

Corbulo

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