Amazing coincidence? Enki's Eagle eating serpent vs Tenochtitlan Eagle killing Serpent.

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Lemuria
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How do you explain this type of coincidence between two separate cultures: same complex symbol appearing in two different unconnected cultures? The Eagle killing the serpent is Enki's sigil and yet it appears again at the foundation of Technotitlan. The Aztec creation myth is just as intriguing. Even more intriguing Lord Enki is the god of creation, seawater and LAKEWATER (Technotitlan was two islands on a massive lake) and fertility among others. So his zone of control is basically any water body, all oceans, lakes and the islands/continents even such as Australia. Isn't that intriguing?

Lord Enki (or Ea, whatever they called him but this is his real name ?? ). He is pretty much just a man too.

Enki%28Ea%29.jpg


Aztec Eagle (also Mexican coat of arm now)
Escudo_de_la_Tercera_Rep%C3%BAblica_Federal_de_los_Estados_Unidos_Mexicanos_en_1934.svg
 
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ca
coincidence only, IF that. these are cultures separated by millennia and an ocean
 
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Lemuria
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Second image isn't displaying.

I can't get the image to appear somehow as this forum did not recognize the image format after posting. It was a real stone wall depiction but it's basically the same symbol as on the Mexican flag. But here is an artist depiction of the foundation of Tenochtitlan. It's also a well known lore for those familiar with Tenochtitlan history.
AZTECAS-EAGLE.jpg
 
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It's a coincidence, eagles eat snakes in real life. Eagles and snakes are both revered as powerful and symbolic creatures, so an eagle (generally regarded as the greatest of birds and often associated with gods/divinity) killing a snake (regarded as a powerful and often evil entity) is often interpreted as symbolic or a religious event.
 
Joined Jun 2012
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How do you explain this type of coincidence between two separate cultures: same complex symbol appearing in two different unconnected cultures? The Eagle killing the serpent is Enki's sigil and yet it appears again at the foundation of Technotitlan.

The image you give of Enki is not an eagle killing a serpent. The wavy lines represent rivers (you can see fish in them) not serpents. Where do you get the information that Enki's symbol is an eagle killing a serpent? This is not supported by evidence.
 
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Lemuria
The image you give of Enki is not an eagle killing a serpent. The wavy lines represent rivers (you can see fish in them) not serpents. Where do you get the information that Enki's symbol is an eagle killing a serpent? This is not supported by evidence.
The serpent is in its beak.
 
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The serpent is in its beak.

While I agree with that, as far as I am aware, the only significance of linking a serpent and an eagle in Aztec mythology is in connection with the founding of Tenochtitlan, and the cactus also has its part to play in the story.
 
Joined Oct 2016
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Australia
I would say its a coincidence . Many birds eat snakes ; a few weeks ago I was gardening and a kookaburra swooped by my head and landed at my feet - they never do that, I have even tried to tempt them with food , they usually just fly off if I get too close . Not this time, right at my feet and proceeded to attack a red bellied black snake that was approaching me.. It thrashed the snake and beat its head in and ..... down the hatch, head first , gulp by gulp and just sat there . After a bit, with effort from the extra load on board,, it flew up into a tree.

It was very tempting to see it as an omen, the bird 'saved me' from the snake . But really, the snake must have not known I was there, as that type is shy of humans and always retreats , unless cornered or trapped . The bird's excitement at the prospect of a meal lead it to overcome its caution at approaching me . Besides, it probably is used to seeing me around by now and doesnt see me as a threat, just not interested , usually.

But it is an unusual and notable experience, just like seeing a bird fly overhead carrying a writhing snake, or also, a fish (we have big river eagles here, sometimes they fly off holding a big fish underneath ) , so people attribute things to it .

Anyway , so as not to totally rain out your parade, I offer you this tidbit ;

"The Pleiades also figures in the Dreamings of several language groups. For example, in the central desert region, they are said to be seven sisters fleeing from the unwelcome attentions of a man represented by some of the stars in Orion. The close resemblance of this to Greek mythology is believed to be coincidental — there is no evidence of any cultural connection.[6]
....
However, stars were commonly used to measure time and the seasons and to regulate daily activities before written culture, and long after in some cultures. The myths of the Australian Aboriginal people are, as around the world, to do with moral lessons and various reminders such as when to eat certain types of food, which is itself a cultural connection in the general form of the stories. Therefore, the study of the stars is probably the oldest knowledge on earth, such that it remains an intriguing possibility that aboriginal star knowledge does contain some fragments of a much older original culture. Aboriginal people came to Australia from Asia 50,000 years ago (well before Greek culture formed 3,000–4,000 years ago), and presumably the Aboriginal people originally came from Africa. While there is no hard evidence of a cultural connection, the possibility should not be written off, and the door is open to research to construct models of older human cultures, through the tracing of these narratives and other means such as linguistics."

Australian Aboriginal astronomy - Wikipedia
 
Joined Apr 2017
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Lemuria
It's a coincidence, eagles eat snakes in real life. Eagles and snakes are both revered as powerful and symbolic creatures, so an eagle (generally regarded as the greatest of birds and often associated with gods/divinity) killing a snake (regarded as a powerful and often evil entity) is often interpreted as symbolic or a religious event.
But how do you build a thriving city (possibly the best in the world in term of living standard in those days) on a SALT WATER lake and produce a vast food surplus through advance agricultural practices? Considering those who founded the city were considered dregs by the other hostile natives surrounding them on land? Not a small feat. Of course when they reached the zenith of their power they became extremely perverted, practicing human sacrifices and committing all sort of atrocious acts ruining their potential for a greater civilization. I'd say they got some sort of help but misused it by adopting a Machiavellian approach to the competition.
 
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But how do you build a thriving city (possibly the best in the world in term of living standard in those days) on a SALT WATER lake and produce a vast food surplus through advance agricultural practices? Considering those who founded the city were considered dregs by the other hostile natives surrounding them on land? Not a small feat. Of course when they reached the zenith of their power they became extremely perverted, practicing human sacrifices and committing all sort of atrocious acts ruining their potential for a greater civilization. I'd say they got some sort of help but misused it by adopting a Machiavellian approach to the competition.
Are you suggesting the Aztecs were influenced by the Mesopotamians? If so, there's a couple thousand year gap between these civilizations.
 
Joined Oct 2018
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Adelaide south Australia
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It's interesting, as a coincidence. There are common threads in mythologies all over the world. Perhaps one of the most common is flood myths. Believers have tried to argue those myths prove a world wide flood. They don't. Why then? Perhaps because human beings have similar thought patterns.

Similarities in thinking in modern times include invention such as radio, flight and the internal combustion engine.

There are [very] superficial similarities between Isis and the Virgin Mary and Mithras and Jesus. There was a well known lunatic fringe about those correlations a few years ago. The main criticism of the book is that either through a stunning ignorance or bald faced lying, the book made claims which were demonstrably false.

THE POINT: Correlations are interesting, and perhaps suggest the topic is worthy or further study. Happens in medicine all the time. One I heard a few years ago; a correlation between heavy (more than once a day) use of cannabis and brain aneurisms .Medical opinion at the time; interesting, might be true. Formal study required. My GP is convinced there is a link between smoking and a wide range of cancers. ; formal studied needed.

I think it's a bit simplistic to consider human sacrifice as simply a perversion. Examining the culture involved usually shows an internal logic to the practice. Such sacrifices have been made in cultures as diverse as Hawaiian, Viking/Danish and of course Ancient China, not to mention Babylonians. AND in the old testament: Abraham was ready to sacrifice his son Isaac.

Human sacrifice is an extreme form of worship; the offering of society's most precious commodity; people , even children. The Aztec, Inca and Maya performed human sacrifice on what can be best be described as an industrial level. That suggests to me a very unstable society. Perhaps climate/ drought/ floods , salination of soil (common after long term irrigation) or catastrophic incursion of enemies.Human sacrifices tends to be seen by practitioners as communing directly with their gods pleading for help, or to appease an angry god such as a volcano, or or perhaps hurricanes, too much or too little rain.

Meso American cultures who practiced human sacrifice goes back to the Olmecs 1200-400 bce. Aztecs practiced human sacrifice pretty much the entire time their civilisation flourished; early eriod; 1100 -1350 ce and 1350 to 1520 ce.
 
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Srpska
The most important thing is to ignore those who say it is a coincidence. They don't know what they are talking about, they have not spent a minute of research. It's a dogma.
 
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The most important thing is to ignore those who say it is a coincidence. They don't know what they are talking about, they have not spent a minute of research. It's a dogma.

How interesting.

Would you care to prove those claims? I'm especially looking forward to learning how you know myself and others here have done no research.

Perhaps you could also explain how you have established 'coincidence' is an incorrect conclusion in the coincidence under discussion.


As for me, I learned how to undertake research as an undergrad, whilst studying for my degree in Social l Anthropology. Could you tell us about your discipline and the degree you earned? I'm waiting with baited breath I'll really enjoy learning from such an erudite source.

I've given the explanationI I have as a probably true based on the information provided. Happy to change my mind on seeing some actual proof.


PS the ad hominem attack of your post is not an argument.
 
Joined Apr 2017
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Lemuria
The most important thing is to ignore those who say it is a coincidence. They don't know what they are talking about, they have not spent a minute of research. It's a dogma.

You have to examine both sides of an argument. It's also okay to be biased toward one side without ignoring the other. Both sides cannot provide outright conclusive evidence so debating the matter is a start.
 
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Lemuria
Are you suggesting the Aztecs were influenced by the Mesopotamians? If so, there's a couple thousand year gap between these civilizations.

I wouldn't put it in these terms but yes. I'm a follower of the World Wide Megalithic (or Antediluvian) civilization hypothesis (but this is another topic). So the Aztecs (and hence Olmecs) and Sumerians among others are connected.
 
Joined Oct 2018
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You have to examine both sides of an argument. It's also okay to be biased toward one side without ignoring the other. Both sides cannot provide outright conclusive evidence so debating the matter is a start.

THAT's what I meant to say. Intolerant of me to respond so poorly to an ad hominem attack. I try not to resort to using such an obvious logical falllacy as 'argument from authority". Perhaps your approach will have positive results. :)
 
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I wouldn't put it in these terms but yes. I'm a follower of the World Wide Megalithic (or Antediluvian) civilization hypothesis (but this is another topic). So the Aztecs (and hence Olmecs) and Sumerians among others are connected.

Then you need to explain the anomaly pointed out ( that 'couple of thousand year gap ' ) . I have talked to many ' World Wide Megalithic (or Antediluvian) civilization hypothesis makers' and this is the point they choose not to answer or divert . Perhaps you will try to answer though ?

How do you explain this gap ( and there are many cases of such gaps in time, mostly when comparisons between the 'old' and 'new world' cultures are made ) ?

Did the people that imported these cultures, hold the knowledge and pass it from generation to generation, floating around the sea for a couple of thousand years, only to land and then begin an influenced re construction somewhere else ?

Did they arrive in the New World and live there without implementing this knowhow for thousands of years and then implement it thousands of years later ? Did they leave secret records that were found thousands of years later that instructed them in the theory ?

How do you construct things so well after a thousands of years gap, in the practical knowhow ?

If the original people developed such techniques, why could not have others elsewhere ?

How come we can track the development , in many cases. of such technology .

Unless these issues can be addressed, and not ignored or fobbed off or diverted or any of the other tactics previously used by others when asked these questions, the theory must and will remain a 'crank' or 'crackpot' theory .

This time gap issue really needs to be addressed . yet no 'believer' will do so .
 
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Then you need to explain the anomaly pointed out ( that 'couple of thousand year gap ' ) . I have talked to many ' World Wide Megalithic (or Antediluvian) civilization hypothesis makers' and this is the point they choose not to answer or divert . Perhaps you will try to answer though ?

How do you explain this gap ( and there are many cases of such gaps in time, mostly when comparisons between the 'old' and 'new world' cultures are made ) ?---------------------------------------

Can't blame the guy for believing in attractive nonsense. The lost knowledge, alien visitations humbug can be very attractive.

I read ' Atlantis The Antediluvian World' by Ignatius Donnelly (written in 1831) in about 1967, on the urging of brilliant but strange friend, who was convinced. That was followed, for almost exactly a decade , by reading around a dozen of alien visitations books in print at that time., I was also regular at the Theosophical Society's book shop.

Atlantis: The Antediluvian World - Wikipedia

Took me years to change my thinking; I was very resistant to change So, I really can't blame our friend for believing in attractive humbug. He may change his views or he may not. Those beliefs are no loopier than some of the things early Mormons believed, or that catholics still believe. ( I won't even start on scientology) . Harmless enough i think, as long as there is no proselytising.
 
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Lemuria
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Then you need to explain the anomaly pointed out ( that 'couple of thousand year gap ' ) . I have talked to many ' World Wide Megalithic (or Antediluvian) civilization hypothesis makers' and this is the point they choose not to answer or divert . Perhaps you will try to answer though ?

How do you explain this gap ( and there are many cases of such gaps in time, mostly when comparisons between the 'old' and 'new world' cultures are made ) ?

Did the people that imported these cultures, hold the knowledge and pass it from generation to generation, floating around the sea for a couple of thousand years, only to land and then begin an influenced re construction somewhere else ?

Did they arrive in the New World and live there without implementing this knowhow for thousands of years and then implement it thousands of years later ? Did they leave secret records that were found thousands of years later that instructed them in the theory ?

How do you construct things so well after a thousands of years gap, in the practical knowhow ?

If the original people developed such techniques, why could not have others elsewhere ?

How come we can track the development , in many cases. of such technology .

Unless these issues can be addressed, and not ignored or fobbed off or diverted or any of the other tactics previously used by others when asked these questions, the theory must and will remain a 'crank' or 'crackpot' theory .

This time gap issue really needs to be addressed . yet no 'believer' will do so .
Then you need to explain the anomaly pointed out ( that 'couple of thousand year gap ' ) . I have talked to many ' World Wide Megalithic (or Antediluvian) civilization hypothesis makers' and this is the point they choose not to answer or divert . Perhaps you will try to answer though ?

How do you explain this gap ( and there are many cases of such gaps in time, mostly when comparisons between the 'old' and 'new world' cultures are made ) ?

Did the people that imported these cultures, hold the knowledge and pass it from generation to generation, floating around the sea for a couple of thousand years, only to land and then begin an influenced re construction somewhere else ?

Did they arrive in the New World and live there without implementing this knowhow for thousands of years and then implement it thousands of years later ? Did they leave secret records that were found thousands of years later that instructed them in the theory ?

How do you construct things so well after a thousands of years gap, in the practical knowhow ?

If the original people developed such techniques, why could not have others elsewhere ?

How come we can track the development , in many cases. of such technology .

Unless these issues can be addressed, and not ignored or fobbed off or diverted or any of the other tactics previously used by others when asked these questions, the theory must and will remain a 'crank' or 'crackpot' theory .

This time gap issue really needs to be addressed . yet no 'believer' will do so .

To summarize the hypothesis: around 13,000 years ago there was a comet that hit Earth (everyone somehow knows something about this through local myths and legends for example the Genesis flood). Before that there were various civilizations capable of traveling around the world. These advanced people sought refuge among the hunter gatherers (as their coastal cities and networks were destroyed) and kick-started civilization wherever they were in some form or aanother. They were their elites. So in essence the Sumerians and the Olmecs (what came after them) were connected. The elites (small group of survivors scattered around the world) either died out through inbreeding or by dilution. For example The Sphinx and Stonehenge belonged to that previous Antediluvian civilization or civilizations. Below is another remnant of such civilization in New Zealand. it's not a weak hypothesis as you might think. It has it's fair share of evidence but it's growing in popularity.

 

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