America's East Europe :military intervention in Central America and the Carribean 1920 to 1989

deaf tuner said:

I might be wrong, but AFAIK, Socialist Romania participated (even if symbolically in term of numbers) to the Warsaw pact military exercises/wargames on the "South Front" (URSS+Bulgaria+Romania)
as late as1989: "BALKAN-89".

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I didn't know that, thank you. It seems Romania's position as to exercises with the Warsaw Pact might have been: if we want, we'll participate. If I don't get this wrong, that exercise was strictly defensive in outlook - I don't know if that mattered. For decades, until about 1985, the Warsaw Pact doctrine in case of attack by the NATO/OTAN had been to counterattack.

GogLais said:

If you’re saying the US had the right to dominate the area to prevent the installation of Soviet missiles then the USSR had the right to invade Turkey and Italy.

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It's not a matter of right of wrong, of course. I know that the missiles in Cuba could be seen as a reaction to the missiles in Turkey. "Everyone imposes his systems as far as his army can go". The Krasnaya Armiya managed to reach Eastern Europe, but not Turkey; the West managed to reach Turkey, and Cuba was definitely an overstretch for the Soviet armed forces, but not for the USN and USAF.

Note, in any case, that the USA did not "invade" Cuba. The reaction to the attempt to install missiles in Cuba could have justified the Soviets in attempting the same policies to stop the deployment of US missiles in Turkey, not an invasion.

deaf tuner said:

Why Central America and the Caraïbes is not America's Eastern Europe is because URSS imposed a regime change. I think You underestimate the importance of the constitutional change: it created not just "copycats" not just puppet regimes but real "smaller URSS", run by "smaller Stalins", leading "smaller Bolshevik" parties. It was so effective than on occasions they were more Catholic than Pope himself. Oups, sorry: more Communists than Bolsheviks themselves.

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I see your point, but I'd like to mention that if the USA had always wanted democracy only in Central and South America, that would not have been all that bad. The problem was that the USA fostered a democratic local system for as long as things went smoothly. But if things got rougher, then it was time for "our SOB". Which wasn't the same ruling system as in the USA, quite the contrary, but at least it was theirs (the USA's, of course, not the local citizenry's).

Michele A said:

I see your point, but I'd like to mention that if the USA had always wanted democracy only in Central and South America, that would not have been all that bad. The problem was that the USA fostered a democratic local system for as long as things went smoothly. But if things got rougher, then it was time for "our SOB". Which wasn't the same ruling system as in the USA, quite the contrary, but at least it was theirs (the USA's, of course, not the local citizenry's).

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As in other cases, in Chile, the USA overthrow (or helped to overthrow) a democracy and installed (or helped to install) a dictatorship. As you say, often the "things got rougher".

Michele A said:

If I don't get this wrong, that exercise was strictly defensive in outlook

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Depends on how You look at it: yes, the premise was a NATO attack, but Soviet doctrine was "the best defence is the attack". IIRC, the Soviet-Bulgarian-Romania' war game was about attacking Turkey and Greece, targeting the occupation of Dardanelles, as the "VLATAVA-89" (=north front) was about occupying north W. Germany, Holland and Belgium

deaf tuner said:

Depends on how You look at it: yes, the premise was a NATO attack, but Soviet doctrine was "the best defence is the attack". IIRC, the Soviet-Bulgarian-Romania' war game was about attacking Turkey and Greece, targeting the occupation of Dardanelles, as the "VLATAVA-89" (=north front) was about occupying north W. Germany, Holland and Belgium

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...er, what a fairy tale to scare lil capitalistic children that big bad red wolf is coming. Your Vltava and Balkan were defensive military exercises of WP to drive back aggression by the adversary, destruction of enemy forces that had penetrated into WP defenses even with the use of tactical nuclear weapons, conduct combat operations against the invaders, different Nato members of course in Balkan case, Greece and Turkey, in Vltava, the Nato neighbours of Czecholslovakia, Austria retained her neutrality in Vtava scenario. The information is in the net, mate.

At Each Kilometer said:

...er, what a fairy tale to scare lil capitalistic children that big bad red wolf is coming. Your Vltava and Balkan were defensive military exercises of WP to drive back aggression by the adversary, destruction of enemy forces that had penetrated into WP defenses even with the use of tactical nuclear weapons, conduct combat operations against the invaders, different Nato members of course in Balkan case, Greece and Turkey, in Vltava, the Nato neighbours of Czecholslovakia, Austria retained her neutrality in Vtava scenario. The information is in the net, mate.

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Correct me if I am wrong: the soviet doctrine of defense was pushing as quickly as possible the battle field on the enemy's (=attacker's) territory since the '30s (and the wargames based on that doctrine are interpreted often as a "proof" Stalin was preparing to attack Hitler, btw).

Yes, the information is on the net.

I didn't managed to find for the moment Bulgarian sources on it (in fact, I think I found something, but it's scanned, so I can't use a translating engine. So IDK if they are confirming or not that BALKAN-89 comprised the occupation of Dardanelles straights (with invasion of northern Greece and eastern Turkey).

a fact hardly ever mentioned was that the USSR was totally convinced of NATO evil intentions

the saying is ,
" you are paranoia ....... probably but that doesn't mean I'm wrong "
it reached some climax with the Nato exercise Able Archer ,

deaf tuner said:

Correct me if I am wrong: the soviet doctrine of defense was pushing as quickly as possible the battle field on the enemy's (=attacker's) territory since the '30s (and the wargames based on that doctrine are interpreted often as a "proof" Stalin was preparing to attack Hitler, btw).

Yes, the information is on the net.

I didn't managed to find for the moment Bulgarian sources on it (in fact, I think I found something, but it's scanned, so I can't use a translating engine. So IDK if they are confirming or not that BALKAN-89 comprised the occupation of Dardanelles straights (with invasion of northern Greece and eastern Turkey).

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Plenty of info about this particular Vltava in the net, the info about Balkan series of military exercises is a bit scarce, in both the last phase is an execution of a counterattack of course. 80's is the decade of so called WP defensive military doctrine, quite paranoid decade idd, the authorities believed that there is a genuine danger of M.A.D., they were afraid of Nato, it is a miracle that we survived as a specie. I would like to see your source about Balkan if it is in Bulgarian or Russian, it is all right i can provide a translation.

Shield-82 is more interesting, it is the code name of the largest strategic exercise with the participation of the Soviet army & navy and the WP allies, which started in June 1982. Scenario: Constant provocative actions by the United States have led to a deterioration in relations with the WP countries. Attempts to normalize the situation through diplomatic means have failed. In Central Europe, there are clashes between NATO forces and the WP armed forces. President Reagan ordered full-scale military action against the USSR. The leadership of the USSR decided to inflict preemptive nuclear attack. Shield-82 drills were held in conditions of simulated nuclear war, at the first stage of the drills the Soviet Union imitated a preventive nuclear strike, training launches of ballistic and cruise missiles from submarines, missile launch facilities, warships etc etc. This simulated Armageddon was followed by WP field drills, which were held in my country and finished in September 1982.

At Each Kilometer said:

Plenty of info about this particular Vltava in the net, the info about Balkan series of military exercises is a bit scarce, in both the last phase is an execution of a counterattack of course. 80's is the decade of so called WP defensive military doctrine, quite paranoid decade idd, the authorities believed that there is a genuine danger of M.A.D., they were afraid of Nato, it is a miracle that we survived as a specie. I would like to see your source about Balkan if it is in Bulgarian or Russian, it is all right i can provide a translation.

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It's kind from You for offering a translation (it isn't that important: I was just looking to see how significant or symbolic was Romania's participation so I didn't bookmarked the search).

This is what I still have in the browser's history:

At Each Kilometer said:

, it is a miracle that we survived as a specie

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Never say never, my friend: there still are some around trying to counter that miracle ...

I found the digitized by google copy of the document in a very shady part of the net and copied the requested text from page 29 in yandex translation machine (Russian translator so a bit better than the others i hope) and voila, the original text and the translation.

Большое значение для руководящих кадров БНА имели КШУ «Балкан-88» и «Балкан-89», характерной особенностью которых явилось то, что они готовились и проводились с учетом требований новой военной доктрины оборонительной направленности. На учениях широко использовалась электронно-вычислительная и микрокомпьютерная техника и впервые — локально-региональная сеть оповещения и управления войсками.

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Of great importance for the leading personnel of the Bulgarian People's Army were the "Balkan-88" and "Balkan-89" military exercises, a characteristic feature of which was that they were prepared and conducted taking into account the requirements of the new military doctrine of a defensive orientation. Electronic computing and microcomputer equipment were widely used in the exercises, and for the first time, a local — regional network of warning and control of troops was used.

В современных условиях для войск ПВО и ВВС повышается роль регулярно проводимых учений «Гранит», в которых участвуют союзные армии на Юго-Западном ТВД. На этих учениях особое внимание уделяется освоению наиболее эффективных способов и форм действия группировок войск коалиционного состава. Практически отрабатываются вопросы взаимодействия и управления силами и средствами ПВО. Существенное значение для Болгарской Народной Армии приобретают и проводимые под руководством Объединенного командозания совместные штабные тренировки, на которых детально и всесторонне аргументированно уясняются вопросы взаимодействия.

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In modern conditions, the role of regular exercises "Granit", which involve the allied armies in the South-Western Theater of Operations, is increasing for the air defense forces and the Air Force. At these exercises, special attention is paid to the development of the most effective methods and forms of action of groups of coalition troops. In practice, the issues of interaction and management of air defense forces and means are being worked out. Joint staff training exercises, conducted under the leadership of the Joint Command, are also of significant importance for the Bulgarian People's Army, where issues of interaction are explained in detail and in a fully reasoned manner.

Повышение боеспособности БНА теснейшим образом связано с военно-техническим и военно-научным сотрудничеством с союзными армиями государств — участников Варшавского Договора. Болгарская Армия располагает необходимыми научно-исследовательскими и конструкторскими учреждениями и высококвалифицированными кадрами.Наше участие в Техническом комитете Объединенных Вооруженных Сил способствует лучшему использованию военно-технического потенциала, разработке новых образцов и конструкций вооружения и боезой техники.

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Increasing the combat capability of the Bulgarian People's Army is closely related to military-technical and military-scientific cooperation with the allied armies of the Warsaw Pact member states. The Bulgarian Army has the necessary research and development institutions and highly qualified personnel.Our participation in the Technical Committee of the Joint Armed Forces contributes to the better use of military-technical potential, the development of new models and designs of weapons and military equipment.


link to the digitized copy of '1990 Информационный сборник штаба объединенных вооруженных сил государств-участников Варшавского договора ' PDF
'1990 Information collection of the Headquarters of the Joint Armed Forces of the Warsaw Pact Member States volume 39-40

At Each Kilometer said:

I found the digitized by google copy of the document in a very shady part of the net and copied the requested text from page 29 in yandex translation machine (Russian translator so a bit better than the others i hope) and voila, the original text and the translation.



Of great importance for the leading personnel of the Bulgarian People's Army were the "Balkan-88" and "Balkan-89" military exercises, a characteristic feature of which was that they were prepared and conducted taking into account the requirements of the new military doctrine of a defensive orientation. Electronic computing and microcomputer equipment were widely used in the exercises, and for the first time, a local — regional network of warning and control of troops was used.



In modern conditions, the role of regular exercises "Granit", which involve the allied armies in the South-Western Theater of Operations, is increasing for the air defense forces and the Air Force. At these exercises, special attention is paid to the development of the most effective methods and forms of action of groups of coalition troops. In practice, the issues of interaction and management of air defense forces and means are being worked out. Joint staff training exercises, conducted under the leadership of the Joint Command, are also of significant importance for the Bulgarian People's Army, where issues of interaction are explained in detail and in a fully reasoned manner.



Increasing the combat capability of the Bulgarian People's Army is closely related to military-technical and military-scientific cooperation with the allied armies of the Warsaw Pact member states. The Bulgarian Army has the necessary research and development institutions and highly qualified personnel.Our participation in the Technical Committee of the Joint Armed Forces contributes to the better use of military-technical potential, the development of new models and designs of weapons and military equipment.


link to the digitized copy of '1990 Информационный сборник штаба объединенных вооруженных сил государств-участников Варшавского договора ' PDF
'1990 Information collection of the Headquarters of the Joint Armed Forces of the Warsaw Pact Member States volume 39-40

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Blagadariu !



Meanwhile, I found one of the documents I had in mind:

"The plan of the Eastern Forces envisaged repulsing the attacks of the Western Forces, then introducing into battle the reserve fronts and armies to take the lead and defeat the groups of the first operational echelons of Western Forces which hadi invaded their territory, and move into counter-attack. They further planned to inflict defeat on the advancing and newly formed operational enemy reserves and to completely defeat the aggressor on his own territory.
[…]
On the eighth day of operations, conditions became more complicated when the Eastern Forces repulsed enemy invaders and went on to attack in the direction of Hamburg, Hannover, Frankfurt, and Munich. Within 3–4 days they had advanced 100–150 km. At the same time, they successfully battled for control of the Baltic Straits. Only in the area toward Prague did the Eastern Forces still face a complicated situation. Troops from the 3rd Front fought hard for Prague in that area.
[…]
On the whole, the situation for the Eastern Forces turned out favorably: They became proficient in taking the strategic initiative, actually cut off groups of Western Forces, created favorable conditions for defeating them, and took control of West German soil. The Western Forces fought difficult defensive battles, attempting not to have their main forces defeated. Near Hamburg the troops of the first Dutch Army Corps found themselves surrounded. In the Hannover region, as the result of the Eastern Forces making deep inroads toward that area, the Western Forces were threatened with being cut off in the theater of action and being defeated unit by unit. "

Marshal Ogarkov Analysis of
the “Zapad” Exercise, May 30–June 9, 1977 (here)

@deaf tuner I found a documentary video about similar military exercise from the late 80s. Hope you enjoy it. /english subtitles provided/

At Each Kilometer said:

@deaf tuner I found a documentary video about similar military exercise from the late 80s. Hope you enjoy it. /english subtitles provided/

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Honestly? I prefer the Soviet patriotic music in place of the English composer trying to be a Soviet composer

@deaf tuner You are right, he is British.

Resolution of the Central Committee of the CPSU on May 5th, 2021: to award British Comrade James Hannigan with the Lenin Prize and the title of Hero of Socialist Labour for active work in the field of ideological education of the masses. The Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR fully supports this decision.The working class comes out to the streets to celebrate the glorious achievement of Comrade Hannigan. URAAA-AAA-AAA!