Joined Aug 2010
6,752 Posts | 17+
The Far East
that was quite laughable how the war veteran said that when in germany they never harmed civilians and even more ridiculous when he said that stalin never did anything like this when talking about the air attacks. people who know only a tiny bit about stalin will know that that is total BS.
russia's war in chechnya is certainly brutal but i think its going to far to call it a genocide.
russia's war in chechnya is certainly brutal but i think its going to far to call it a genocide.
Joined Jan 2011
50 Posts | 0+
Ankara/Turkey
i agree. but i'd like you to remember that its not the claim of documentary but an old excited citizen. the only reason why it might not be called genocide is the numbers and that doesnt mean chechen civilians were not massacred occasionally.
Joined Aug 2010
6,752 Posts | 17+
The Far East
a genocide is when one group seeks the complete liquidation of an ethnic group. to have a lot of civilians killed in collateral damage and such is not a genocide its just a general aspect of war, every war has its collateral damage.
Joined Jan 2009
8,559 Posts | 90+
In the Past
Joined May 2011
2,704 Posts | 1+
It was onslaught, numerous war crimes etc but not genocide like they used to commit in 1940s and during [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_War]Caucasian War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
Actually events like the sealing of the Chechen frontier in 1999 and the obstruction of humanitarian aid are quite close to genocide. But I'm not sure.
Actually events like the sealing of the Chechen frontier in 1999 and the obstruction of humanitarian aid are quite close to genocide. But I'm not sure.
Joined Jul 2011
5,952 Posts | 32+
Belgium
The Chechen wars were not a genocide, but an armed conflict on which both sides performed atrocities.
The Russian repression was brutal, yes, but it was by no means an attempt to eradicate the Chechen people.
Joined May 2011
2,704 Posts | 1+
Basically I'm gonna agree with you. But what do you think about events like that:
Chechnya. Russia is committing war crimes and genocide. A memorandum of Gesellschaft fuer bedrohte Voelker / Society for Threatened Peoples International, 18.11.1999
On 23.10.1999 the Russian army sealed off the borders of Chechnya. On 31.10.1999 the main road linking Chechnya with Georgia, to the south was bombed and rendered impassable. Earlier some 2,500 refugees - all of them women, children and the very old - had used this route for their escape by dramatic marches on foot lasting many days over the high mountains to Shatili in Georgia. According to the Berlin-based German-Caucasian Society, they were bombed by the Russian air force as they were fleeing.
According to the United Nations High Commission for Refugees (UNHCR), at the beginning of November 1999 thousands of refugees were waiting, in snow and rain, in a column stretching 15 kilometres on the Chechen side of the border with Ingushetia to be allowed to leave. On 2.11.1999 the Ingushetian president Ruslan Auschew warned of a further 100,000 refugees arriving if Russian troops stormed the Chechen capital Grozny. On 3.11.1999 the UNHCR told of 150,000 more refugees trying to enter Ingushetia.
For weeks international relief agencies have been unable to gain access to Chechnya. Not once has a doctor or nurse been allowed to cross the frontier. Thousands of the elderly, the weak and infirm and the poor are still inside Chechnya, either because they have insufficient strength to get to the border or because they are unable to find the money needed to pay the levy of over 60 US dollars charged by the Russian border guards in order to allow people through. The Russian Deputy Prime Minister Valentina Matvienko has denied that these desperate people were refugees.
Joined Jan 2011
50 Posts | 0+
Ankara/Turkey
Joined Aug 2009
2,187 Posts | 10+
Russia, Msk
The Chechen people supported atrocious and audacious terrorists in 1990-teens and they were to respond for choices,although many of them were put up to unconsciously. But Russian young chaps perished in Chechen didn't deserve their destiny.
Joined Jun 2011
2,141 Posts | 2+
California, USA
Oups something went wrong. Of course I wanted to say that there has been some abuses...on both side.
Joined Apr 2010
1,406 Posts | 2+
It's just so funny - russians using the same arguments to deny that genocide as the turks use to deny the armenian genocide. And the best part is - it was turks who opened this thread in the first place. LOL We only lack a few germans accusing both sides while denying the Holocaust and an american doing the same while denying the Iraqi and Afghani mass murder that his country is guilty of. 
Joined Aug 2009
2,187 Posts | 10+
Russia, Msk
Demagogy. Destruction of the bandits and their accomplices can not be called genocide. Another thing is that the methods of restoring law had not been thought out and systematic. This led to the deaths of civilians, which were used by bandits as a cover.
Armenian genocide, in turn, had all the signs of genocide. The aim of the Turkish operation was the destruction or expulsion of Armenians from Turkey. Russian authorities did not set such goals.
Russian actions in Chechnya can not be called an ethnic cleansing or even a deportation. Because Russia has created all conditions for a return of persons ran by the fighting. There were no persecutions on ethnic grounds and massacres of Chechens. It should be noted that ethnic Russian refugees were left without any government assistance. They have been forgotten by Yeltsin.
Joined Apr 2010
1,406 Posts | 2+
I do agree there is a differenece between the two cases yet even if we can't call Chechnya a genocide because of the above mentioned facts it still is a brutal war filled with mass murders. How many times have russian soldiers dug up pits and thrown civilian chechens inside with a couple of granades? I have heard multiple journalists describing such scenes. It is an undeniable fact that the russian soldiers acted in a cold and brutal way that got much more civilians killed than armed chechens. That can be at least described as a mass murder if not a genocide and is also a crime.
And second of all, while i do oppose the terrorist actions of chechens which are also aimed at civilians and can not possible be justified, i can't understand why exactly do you, the russian people, think you have any right to hold that territory (Chechnya) as a part of Russia? The people there have clearly showed they don't want to be part of Russia and regardless of the russian minority you have no historic, cultural or demographic rights on that land. It's only because of the oil that the russians keep holding Chechnya and that is no different from any other occupation in history. The same situation as with the kurds in Turkey. Neither you have the right to occupy Chechnya, nor the turks to occupy Kurdistan.
Joined May 2011
2,704 Posts | 1+
Actually they held some frigged elections that should tell the world how we do love Russians.
The voters:
BBC NEWS | Europe | Chechnya 'backs new constitution'
Joined Apr 2010
1,406 Posts | 2+
Actually they held some frigged elections that should tell the world how we do love Russians.
The voters:
BBC NEWS | Europe | Chechnya 'backs new constitution'
Traditional russian imperialism mixed with modern democracy - hilarious.
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