Could Hannibal really have taken Rome?

Joined Jul 2013
3,256 Posts | 193+
China
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Could Hannibal really have taken Rome? I just finished reading the book "Hannibal, one man against Rome" Here is my opinion on Hannibal. Although he is one of my favorite generals....him taking Rome is highly unlikely even if he listened to Mahabul.

Here are some questions and responses about the Hannibal case. I will answer them in my opinion feel free to judge.

"Hannibal cannot take Rome due to the lack of troops."
Hannibal lost about 10 percent of his army at Cannae...I'm not too sure how badly in shape they were to launch a successful siege right after the battle. But 45,000 men is still a good number. It may had been Hannibal's indecisiveness or genius. Sieges are very risky plus Rome could still raise troops from the Socii outside Italy.(Like they did after Cannae)


"Hannibal had no siege equipment"
Not very true since Hannibal launched multiple sieges Italy.(imedietley after Cannae)

"Rome had no troops after Cannae"
definitely wrong. Rome had a strong Navy still. A lot of troops stationed in Spain and Sicily plus hundreds of thousands of allied troops defending their homelands. Marcellus hearing the defeat at Cannae reinforced Rome with 15,000 Legionaires after Cannae plus not counting the Vigiles cops and Urban Cohorts.

Rome restored its numbers in a matter of weeks. By the battle of Nola(216 BC same year as Cannae) the Romans outnumbered Hannibal and defeated him at Nola, forcing him to go to other Italian cities.

"Could Hannibal launch a successful siege?"
I doubt it. Rome had some of the strongest walls compared to other cities Hannibal laid siege to. Not much use for his superior cavalry in those conditions.
Sieges takes days if not weeks. And Rome was able to replenish its numbers in a matter of weeks.

"Hannibal had no reinforcements"

Eh....half true. Hannibal had plenty of powerful Italian allies like from Capua and Tarantum. Hannibal did get reinforcements by Hanno but were intercepted at the Battle of Beneventum.
Also his brother was about to join him at his Italian campaign. the Romans faked on attacking Hannibal by making him believe them to make camp but attacked his brother and cut of his head at the Battle of Metaurus.

The victories of the Roman Navy at the Batte of Ebro River, Lilybeaum, and Cornus prevented the Carthaginians from having a mass logistical support to Italy. Plus land battles like the Battle of Cisa, and the Battle of Dertosa(this was before Cannae when Hannibal was still in the Alps) permentatley cut off Spain from Hannibal and set up a Roman allied support base in Northern Spain preventing Hannibal's brother from
supplying the Italian campaign.

Fabius' tactics was not just to not enage Hannibal but "engage Hannibal's armies when Hannibal was not there."

Hannibal just did not have the numbers not he was in control of the army.
 
Joined Mar 2012
2,758 Posts | 533+
I think you got it. My long stated opinion is that Rome was never anywhere near as bad off as it has been made out. If Hannibal marched on Rome, he would be putting himself in pinchers between the city and Marcellus.

If he could have taken it, then he would have.

That is about all I intend to say as I fully expect this thread to go 400 pages between the Roman fanboys (myself) and the Hannibal fanboys.
 
Joined Jun 2006
10,363 Posts | 32+
U.K.
"Rome had no troops after Cannae"
...Marcellus hearing the defeat at Cannae reinforced Rome with 15,000 Legionaires after Cannae plus not counting the Vigiles cops and Urban Cohorts....

Two points;

1,500, not 15,000, and Vigiles and Cohortes Urbanae were instituted over 100 years after the Hannibalic war. Rome could have called up the "Tumultus" a last ditch, citizen militia but that was about it other than recalling various Praetorian forces from wherever they were stationed.
 
Joined Mar 2013
15,541 Posts | 714+
India
I'd love to know hoe defensible rome as a city was. When caesar marched on Rome, Pompey preferred to leave rather than hold the walls, even though he clearly outnumbered Caesar. Even with fairly green troops, in a defensive siege if you outnumber the enemy it sounds like you should win.

If Hannibal had been given adequate support from Carthage (which also means continuous, well trained troops, of the sort the Romans could muster. Carthage did have the ability, they just chose to ditch Hannibal when he needed them most), I'm sure Hannibal could have taken Rome. Troops in Spain and elsewhere would have been meaningless, since it is likely that Hannibal would have simply forced rome to sign a treaty of surrender. The Senate never did have a reputation for bravery. After that he'd have forced Rome to make monetary reparations, hand over territory (probably spain) and would have then gone home. By the time Spanish legions got there, Hannibal could have been long gone.
 
Joined May 2013
645 Posts | 0+
Greece
Even the greatest commander cannot win if everything is against him. Hannibal could win one battle after the other with his magnificent battle tactics, but in the end, he just could not beat Rome for reasons stated in post 1#.
 
Joined May 2013
1,442 Posts | 0+
India
Even the greatest commander cannot win if everything is against him. Hannibal could win one battle after the other with his magnificent battle tactics, but in the end, he just could not beat Rome for reasons stated in post 1#.

You said my words, friend. That's exactly what I wanted to say.
 
Joined Jan 2011
16,917 Posts | 1,879+
If he COULD have, he WOULD have

Since he DID NOT, ipso facto he COULD NOT

NB: you cant both consider Hannibal to be a military genius AND believe he would make the grievous mistake of not taking the ennemy capital if the taking was possible.... So you are left with one of 2 options: Hannibal was a poor general (unlikely) OR Rome could not be taken with the forces he had at hand (very likely)
 
Joined Mar 2013
15,541 Posts | 714+
India
If he COULD have, he WOULD have

Since he DID NOT, ipso facto he COULD NOT

NB: you cant both consider Hannibal to be a military genius AND believe he would make the grievous mistake of not taking the ennemy capital if the taking was possible.... So you are left with one of 2 options: Hannibal was a poor general (unlikely) OR Rome could not be taken with the forces he had at hand (very likely)

The question assumes that Hannibal did not suffer from the lack of supplies that he DID infact suffer from historically. Its specualtive, as in IF he had the ability to raise more troops (and had better support from Carthage). Another way of looking at it, what would have Hannibal required to take Rome.

Either way this really should be moved to Speculative History
 
Joined Oct 2011
40,550 Posts | 7,631+
Italy, Lago Maggiore
For accuracy:

regarding "siege equipment", it's not about not having it, it's about a lack of siege equipment; in quantity and in quality.

Hannibal knew that to hope to conquer Rome after not being able to conquer Piacenza and Spoleto was a vane hope [the two mentioned cities were well more little and less defended than Rome].

The same thought came to his mind seeing the defensive fortification of Naples [he renounced also in that case].

Capua opened the doors to Hannibal.

The loyalty of the main cities of the Peninsula and of a great part of the population allowed to Rome to counterattack, while that context didn't allow to Hannibal to get the final victory.
 
Joined Jan 2011
16,917 Posts | 1,879+
"Hannibal cannot take Rome due to the lack of troops."
Hannibal lost about 10 percent of his army at Cannae...I'm not too sure how badly in shape they were to launch a successful siege right after the battle. But 45,000 men is still a good number. It may had been Hannibal's indecisiveness or genius. Sieges are very risky plus Rome could still raise troops from the Socii outside Italy.(Like they did after Cannae)

I would be careful about any troop estimates... Truth is we just dont know....The true figure might have been much lower. Odds are the figure was in fact lower than 45 000
 
Joined Jan 2013
425 Posts | 1+
Braavos
Alone, with what resources he had, there was little chance of Hannibal taking Rome. However, two factors remaining that will always be disputed ;Had Hannibal put a siege at Rome, would the Italic allies change sides or stay loyal? Depending on this, it could have broken or helped Hannibal. I like to think that they wouldn't helped Hannibal, but this will always be disputed. I think the Italic allies would have sent relief force and wage gorilla warfare on Hannibal. Without support, he would have been defeated.
 
Joined Mar 2013
15,541 Posts | 714+
India
wage gorilla warfare on Hannibal.

No way Hannibal could have won against Gorilla Warfare :D

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Joined Jun 2013
102 Posts | 1+
San Francisco
I don't think it was Hannibal's object to take Rome by siege after Cannae. He may have confidently expected Rome to sue for peace, and planned to impose a treaty upon her similar to the treaty the Romans imposed upon Carthage after the first Punic War. When Rome failed to comply, Hannibal sought to isolate her by making alliances with other regions of Italy. He won over much of Samnia, Lucania, Apulia and Bruttium, and the cities of Capua, Metapontum, Arpi, Locri and eventually Tarentum went over to his side. He wanted to control a seaport, which was the reason for besieging Nola. He might have achieved that goal in taking Tarentum by a ruse if the Roman garrison's commander Marcus Livius hadn't maintained control of the citadel.
Sieges were not Hannibal's forte. He succeeded in taking Saguntum after eight months, but there he had siege equipment and his army was well supplied in Spain. Rome would have been a different matter. Even if he had managed to build siege equipment how would he have maintained some 40,000 troops in a siege that might have gone on for months? One presumes that the Romans would have stockpiled grain and could have held out for some time.
After Cannae the Romans basically carried on a war of attrition, slowly winning back territory they had lost. By 203 B.C. Hannibal was confined to a corner of Bruttium. I would attribute Hannibal's failure to the lack of material support from Carthage and to the Roman's adoption of Fabian tactics.
 
Joined Apr 2010
5,163 Posts | 447+
Oxford
Two points;

1,500, not 15,000, and Vigiles and Cohortes Urbanae were instituted over 100 years after the Hannibalic war.

Indeed, yet he may be using the word for the raised legions back then too. . .

Anyhow, for Hannibal taking Rome, I have a blog on the subject, plus there are a couple of good threads to consider (such as Lessons of Cannae).
 
Joined Nov 2012
429 Posts | 0+
Wiltshire
I don't think it was Hannibal's object to take Rome by siege after Cannae. He may have confidently expected Rome to sue for peace, and planned to impose a treaty upon her similar to the treaty the Romans imposed upon Carthage after the first Punic War.

I completely agree. As I've stated in similar threads, Hannibal had already inflicted two serious defeats on Rome, and then at Cannae Rome suffered one of the worst military losses of any ancient battle. I think that any other contemporary civilization, had if suffered the defeats Rome did, would have sued for peace, and that's what Hannibal expected Rome to do.
 
Joined Jun 2006
10,363 Posts | 32+
U.K.
Indeed, yet he may be using the word for the raised legions back then too. . .

Anyhow, for Hannibal taking Rome, I have a blog on the subject, plus there are a couple of good threads to consider (such as Lessons of Cannae).

I keep meaning to read your blogs, but never seem to get an opportunity; something always crops up, just when I'm getting settled. :zany::)
 

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