Don't you think Thermopylae killed Greek history?

arkteia · Jan 27, 2013

just because it is all that everyone knows about Greece. Thermopylae and Leonidas? And no one goes any further? Even the second Persian invasion, technicalky, lasted for .two years, and not three days?

Lucius Vorenus · Jan 27, 2013

arkteia said:
And no one goes any further?

This is generalization at its peak.

Salah · Jan 27, 2013

Pop culture has made Thermopylae cool. But among people that actually care about history for its own sake, I don't see Thermopylae getting undue attention at all.

emperor of seleucid · Jan 27, 2013

That's a generalization, but that movie was awesome.

Space Shark · Jan 27, 2013

arkteia said:
just because it is all that everyone knows about Greece. Thermopylae and Leonidas? And no one goes any further? Even the second Persian invasion, technicalky, lasted for .two years, and not three days?

It's all because of that one movie where a Nubian ambassidor working for Persia gets kicked down a pit because he thought a job as a diplomat to Greece would be a fun and easy job.

DS1967 · Jan 27, 2013

Space Shark said:
It's all because of that one movie where a Nubian ambassidor working for Persia gets kicked down a pit because he thought a job as a diplomat to Greece would be a fun and easy job.

My favorite movie on it was the 300 Spartans movie from 1962

arkteia · Jan 27, 2013

DS1967 said:
My favorite movie on it was the 300 Spartans movie from 1962

At least it had beautiful views of Greece, and even with old cinematography, it made more sense. Their Leonidas was sexier, too. The new version seems to have been filmed in a gym for bodybuilders.

Lucius Vorenus · Jan 28, 2013

I do like parody on 300 though. Especially the part when Leonidas and persian emperor meet each other.

lol

Mandate of Heaven · Jan 28, 2013

This also speaks to the power of Greek propaganda. No doubt Thermopolyae was an incredible event. But throughout thousands years of history, there are some comparably amazing events but they all get overshadowed by Thermopolyae. Same thing with conquering, when Persians or any other people trying to conquer Greece or the west, it's an evil that must be stopped. But when it was Greeks who bent on conquer the world, then we all sing to the courage to dream the impossible.

Strategos · Jan 28, 2013

The most important part of the battle in Thermopylae is frequently omitted. If the 300 Spartans (Heroes!) abandoned the battlefield and ran for their lives, they would face dishonor or even death upon their return in Sparta. The 700 Thespians, led by Demophilus, who chose to stay, fight and die while they could leave with absolutely no consequences back home, were the epitome of heroism and Hellenic valor.

Sargon of Akkad · Jan 28, 2013

Strategos said:
The most important part of the battle in Thermopylae is frequently omitted. If the 300 Spartans (Heroes!) abandoned the battlefield and ran for their lives, they would face dishonor or even death upon their return in Sparta. The 700 Thespians, led by Demophilus, who chose to stay, fight and die while they could leave with absolutely no consequences back home, were the epitome of heroism and Hellenic valor.

I heart the Thespians. At the Battle of Delium, the Athenians pushed back the left wing of the Boeotians...all except the Thespians, anyway, who just stood there and fought to a man for no good reason whatsoever. The total inability to retreat seems to be a Thespian trait.

Strategos · Jan 28, 2013

Sargon of Akkad said:
The total inability to retreat seems to be a Thespian trait.

This is heroism and selflessness. I think that "witty" remarks are most inappropriate.

Earl_of_Rochester · Jan 28, 2013

Thermopylae didn't kill Greek history.

Golden Age Athens did though.

Sargon of Akkad · Jan 28, 2013

Strategos said:
This is heroism and selflessness. I think that "witty" remarks are most inappropriate.

Yes, it is heroism and selflessness, which is why I think highest of the Thespians.

Whether or not my remarks are inappropriate is...well, not particularly relevant, is it? Do we have any ancient Thespians who I've offended?

Yôḥānān · Jan 28, 2013

arkteia said:
just because it is all that everyone knows about Greece. Thermopylae and Leonidas? And no one goes any further? Even the second Persian invasion, technicalky, lasted for .two years, and not three days?

To be honest I loved ancient Greece since before the age of 6 and only learned about the Thermopylae when I was 17.

Caracalla · Jan 28, 2013

Thermopylae didn't suffocate Greek history. Alexander the Great did. Many of my friends still don't know what I'm talking about when I mention Thermopylae, but Alexander is still a household name. Also, I don't think it's a modern thing either. I don't think we can blame Hollywood for this one.

Strategos · Jan 28, 2013

I think it's wrong to say that something has killed (any nation's) history. Ignorance and unwillingness to study history kills it. 95% of people (outside Italy I guess) think that the Roman Empire magically vanished when Jesus was born.
An even higher percent think that the whole Europe turned miraculously Christian, peacefully and quietly.

arkteia · Jan 29, 2013

Strategos said:
The most important part of the battle in Thermopylae is frequently omitted. If the 300 Spartans (Heroes!) abandoned the battlefield and ran for their lives, they would face dishonor or even death upon their return in Sparta. The 700 Thespians, led by Demophilus, who chose to stay, fight and die while they could leave with absolutely no consequences back home, were the epitome of heroism and Hellenic valor.

I wonder if there would have been consequences. After all, Xerxes was going to invade the Thespiae, and perhaps take men as prisoners/slaves, or brand them, like he did with the Thebans. Perhaps it was better to die in a battle? Just my idea. I am trying to find out if there was any connection between Demophilus and Leonidas (a proxenos?). There must have been a reason for them to stay. There is surprisingly little known about them.

Sargon of Akkad · Jan 29, 2013

arkteia said:
I wonder if there would have been consequences. After all, Xerxes was going to invade the Thespiae, and perhaps take men as prisoners/slaves, or brand them, like he did with the Thebans. Perhaps it was better to die in a battle? Just my idea. I am trying to find out if there was any connection between Demophilus and Leonidas (a proxenos?). There must have been a reason for them to stay. There is surprisingly little known about them.

That was actually my point: the Thespians did this sort of thing multiple times.

Lucius Vorenus · Jan 29, 2013

well, as movie nicely pointed out. 100 Spartans probably was worth more than 1000 Thespians. First were professional, deadly soldiers, latter common citizens. Although heroism of Thespians of course deserves place in history.

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Don't you think Thermopylae killed Greek history?

arkteia

Lucius Vorenus

Salah

emperor of seleucid

Space Shark

DS1967

arkteia

Lucius Vorenus

Mandate of Heaven

Strategos

Sargon of Akkad

Strategos

Earl_of_Rochester

Sargon of Akkad

Yôḥānān

Caracalla

Strategos

arkteia

Sargon of Akkad

Lucius Vorenus

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