German nuclear taboo

Multicolored Lemur · Sep 9, 2022

DuneSea said:
Of course but the German coal miners' union existed long before 2000. I'll rephrase my question: Did the German coal miners' union possibly have political influence pre-2000?

We can actually go as late as Dec. 31, 2000.

Multicolored Lemur · Sep 9, 2022

DuneSea said:
The British coal miners' union was very politically powerful before Thatcher and even toppled the Edward Heath government. Germany never had a Thatcher. . .

Ouch.

I’m a citizen of the U.S. But all the same, I remember reading about the government’s strong put-down of the union. And I remember thinking as a young man, wow, a government can be every bit as lousy as a corporation in regards to how they treat workers and a union. Meaning, public ownership of a major industry ain’t necessarily an improvement.

But a majority of British citizens sided with Thatcher and against the unions [not sure how big a majority]. And I’m going to guess that a big chunk of this was just human jealousy at high union wages.

Silesius Smithee · Sep 9, 2022

Michele A said:
It is not.
Germany still has nuclear power plants. It has plans to shut them down, but who knows, everything considered.
Italy had them, then decided to close them down - years ago. That seems a greater taboo to me.

Yes, Germany still has nuclear plants. For now. Just barely. Down to the last (3) from an original 17 in the 1990s as I recall. Those last 3 were supposed to be switched off end of this year but (temporarily) suspended because of the war in Ukraine. I used to work for the German multinational that was HEAVILY involved in this sector; I don't see it rebounding anytime soon.

Silesius Smithee · Sep 9, 2022

DuneSea said:
The British coal miners' union was very politically powerful before Thatcher and even toppled the Edward Heath government. Germany never had a Thatcher. Its coal miners may still be powerful and are probably opposed to renewable and nuclear energy.

Germany may not have had a Thatcher, but they DID have Helmut Kohl in the '80s and '90s, who was bought and paid for by the multinational I used to work for.

DuneSea · Sep 10, 2022

Silesius Smithee said:
Germany may not have had a Thatcher, but they DID have Helmut Kohl in the '80s and '90s, who was bought and paid for by the multinational I used to work for.

Did he support coal mining to the same extent?

Schröder was bought by Gazprom. It was in his best interest to exaggerate the danger of nuclear power.

DuneSea · Sep 10, 2022

Opinion polls are somewhat ambiguous and difficult to interpret but as far as I have understood the anti-nuclear movement in Sweden peaked before Chernobyl. The Chernobyl accident wasn't relevant to our domestically developed BWR technology.

Graham S · Jan 16, 2023

Multicolored Lemur said:
Ouch.

I’m a citizen of the U.S. But all the same, I remember reading about the government’s strong put-down of the union. And I remember thinking as a young man, wow, a government can be every bit as lousy as a corporation in regards to how they treat workers and a union. Meaning, public ownership of a major industry ain’t necessarily an improvement.

But a majority of British citizens sided with Thatcher and against the unions [not sure how big a majority]. And I’m going to guess that a big chunk of this was just human jealousy at high union wages.

Germany has and had a far less confrontational attitude with the unions, they work togeather, they have union reps on the board of directors things like that, where as in england was us and them, strikes pickets an work to rule.
Thatcher was not popular with half the country and thats an understatement, there where partys to celabrate on her death, the 1# song that year was "Ding-Dong! The Witch Is Dead".

Silesius Smithee · Jan 16, 2023

Multicolored Lemur said:
Ouch.

I’m a citizen of the U.S. But all the same, I remember reading about the government’s strong put-down of the union. And I remember thinking as a young man, wow, a government can be every bit as lousy as a corporation in regards to how they treat workers and a union. Meaning, public ownership of a major industry ain’t necessarily an improvement.

But a majority of British citizens sided with Thatcher and against the unions [not sure how big a majority]. And I’m going to guess that a big chunk of this was just human jealousy at high union wages.

I think it's human nature that if someone is slacking or or even doing only a mediocre job at what they're doing, it's a lot easier to get pissed off at them if they're making high union wages than if you know they're probably only making minimum wage.

Dan Howard · Jan 16, 2023

If Germany wants to stop using fossil fuels then nuclear power is the country's only option. It has minimal solar, wind, and hydro resources. Now that Germany can't get cheap gas from Russia its economy is collapsing. It has gone from the fourth biggest economy in the world to a developing nation in less than a year. Merkel was a moron to shut down all but three of their nuclear plants and the country is paying for it.

"The agreements signed by Russia aren’t worth the price of the sheet of paper they are written on."
-- Bismarck

Tercios Espanoles · Jan 16, 2023

The anti-nuclear movement in Germany goes back to the early 1970s, long before Chernobyl, and before any association with big coal, when violent demonstrations against construction of a plant which had already broken ground in an agricultural area in Germany were ultimately successful. The success was empowering to the movement. A lot of the fear surrounding nuclear power had a lot to do with (West) Germany's precarious political position in NATO: In the event of war, they would be on the front line. There was already a fear of battlefield nuclear weapons, and the devastation of WW2 was still a living memory for anyone over thirty, and a curious sort of mass isolationism had set in. Nuclear weapons and nuclear power were symbols of the superpowers and Germans wanted none of it.

Multicolored Lemur · Jan 16, 2023

Silesius Smithee said:
I think it's human nature that if someone is slacking or or even doing only a mediocre job at what they're doing, it's a lot easier to get pissed off at them if they're making high union wages than if you know they're probably only making minimum wage.

Actually . . . I think people can get a lot done through a large quantity of mediocre work.

And maybe in something like making a movie, occasionally allowing really excellent work to come through. In zen fashion, allowing great work, not trying to force it.

And yes, I’m sure engineering is different.

But I’m still guessing it’s a little like I sometimes tell myself with driving: sloppy B+ [I tend to be much too much of a perfectionist! ]

And with customer service . . .

I think it’s crazy when companies tell their employees, “Wow them with service.”

First off, I don’t want them that much in my face and that clingy. And then, I hardly notice the different between A level and B level. But I do notice the difference between B and C level.

It’s a little like driving, How good is your B game?

Anyway, I often blame management because I used to be in management.

Dan Howard · Jan 16, 2023

Tercios Espanoles said:
The anti-nuclear movement in Germany goes back to the early 1970s, long before Chernobyl, and before any association with big coal, when violent demonstrations against construction of a plant which had already broken ground in an agricultural area in Germany were ultimately successful. The success was empowering to the movement. A lot of the fear surrounding nuclear power had a lot to do with (West) Germany's precarious political position in NATO: In the event of war, they would be on the front line. There was already a fear of battlefield nuclear weapons, and the devastation of WW2 was still a living memory for anyone over thirty, and a curious sort of mass isolationism had set in. Nuclear weapons and nuclear power were symbols of the superpowers and Germans wanted none of it.

So what are they going to do now? As far as I can tell the only solution they've come up with is to dig up more lignite. Nineteenth century technology at its finest.

Dan Howard · Jan 16, 2023

Multicolored Lemur said:
And with customer service . . .

I think it’s crazy when companies tell their employees, “Wow them with service.”

First off, I don’t want them that much in my face and that clingy. And then, I hardly notice the different between A level and B level. But I do notice the difference between B and C level.

All I want is courtesy and professionalism. Give me what I want in a reasonable time period. In return I'll be courteous and considerate to the fact that things don't always work out as intended.

Oldandeasilycofused · Jan 16, 2023

Dan Howard said:
All I want is courtesy and professionalism. Give me what I want in a reasonable time period. In return I'll be courteous and considerate to the fact that things don't always work out as intended.

Indeed.

My ideal of the perfect waiter, /restaurant/ counter/floor staff who one who is ubiquitous but not obsequious. Would also love such service at the super hardware stores I'm forced to use and the electronic warehouses I'm also forced to use

Worst customer service I've ever had: The Apple shop in the city. Brand new iMac, a minor problem. I had to physically grab some one-scurrying by. The really devious ones scurry hither and tither and will sometimes be carrying a clipboard to make them look very busy. . Doesn't work on me because I invented that ploy.

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German nuclear taboo

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