Krak des Chevaliers

Fatima · Jun 27, 2011

I'm sorry, it is Medieval time, but...
I can not find any cross on the walls of this Crusader castle.
krak des chevaliers map and architecture photos

I imagine that it is a Roman fort somewhere in Roman Britannia, near Cambridge.

unclefred · Jun 27, 2011

I think the Krak de Chevalier is one of my favorites.

Montsegur one of the most interesting-

I can't not mention the Assassins of Musyaf-

Psellos · Jun 27, 2011

It reminds me a Frankish castle in western Peloponnese, the Chlemoutsi castle or Clermont for Franks or Castel Tornese for Venetians.

Salah · Jun 27, 2011

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Crusader-Castles-Holy-1097-1192-Fortress/dp/1841767158"]Amazon.com: Crusader Castles in the Holy Land 1097-1192 (Fortress) (9781841767154): David Nicolle, Adam Hook: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Z9DQXC56L.@@AMEPARAM@@51Z9DQXC56L[/ame]

Discusses Krak de Chevaliers and many of its lesser known contemporaries.

Fatima · Jun 28, 2011

unclefred said:
I think the Krak de Chevalier is one of my favorites.

Montsegur one of the most interesting-

I can't not mention the Assassins of Musyaf-

well

Fatima · Jun 28, 2011

Butthe the crusaders are the secret to me. What did they really want?
Why their crosses were the copy of Roman (Byzantine)?

My Ancient Artifacts: First Crusader's Cross Holy Land Ancient Cross

Ancient Resource: Ancient Medieval and Byzantine Crosses for Sale

irishcrusader95 · Jun 28, 2011

an incredible fortification and it never fell to an assault, the hospitallers only surrendered because they received a forged note from their grand master telling them to

DreamWeaver · Jun 28, 2011

Fatima said:
Butthe the crusaders are the secret to me. What did they really want?
Why their crosses were the copy of Roman (Byzantine)?

Because they were Latin Christians. They wanted much the same as everybody else who went on crusade, the absolution of their sins. nYou will find no crosses in side, perhaps because it is a ruin.

I can assure you Krak des Chevalliers isntin Cambridge, its in Syria.

irishcrusader95 · Jun 28, 2011

unclefred said:
Montsegur one of the most interesting-

wow so thats Montsegur

, no wonder it took so long to capture. how do you even attack something like that?!

DreamWeaver · Jun 28, 2011

irishcrusader95 said:
wow so thats Montsegur, no wonder it took so long to capture. how do you even attack something like that?!

Ignore the walls, they're an early modern development built on top of the medieval. The sheer geographic location is challenging enough

irishcrusader95 · Jun 28, 2011

DreamWeaver said:
Ignore the walls, they're an early modern development built on top of the medieval. The sheer geographic location is challenging enough

but without any walls what was keeping the crusaders out?

DreamWeaver · Jun 28, 2011

The sheer slopes on either side were problematic, the old keep was actually seperated away from the bailey area by a precipice. Obviously there were walls to the medieval castle, the ones in the pciture are not them though.

formidable use of natural topogrpahy

unclefred · Jun 28, 2011

NOTE ON THE AUTHENTICITY OF THE RUINS OF MONTSEGUR

... the present fortress ruin at Montsegur in France, is not from the Cathar era. The original Cathar fortress of Montsegur was entirely pulled down by the victorious French Royal forces after the fall of the castle and the surrender of the Cathers in 1244. It was gradually rebuilt and upgraded over the next three centuries by Royal forces. The current ruin dramatically occupying the site, and featured in illustrations, including those in this website, is referred to by French archeologists as "Montsegur III" and is typical of post-medieval Royal French defensive architecture. It is not "Montsegur II", the structure in which the Cathars lived and were besieged and of which no trace remains.

This is a fact that the French tourist authority underplays and one that Cathar enthusiasts often overlook; especially when discussing Montsegur's alleged solar alignment characteristics said to be visible on the morning of the summer solstice. This often mentioned solar phenomenon, allegedly occurring in an alignment of two windows in the fortress wall, has not been scientifically surveyed, measured, recorded or confirmed.

The Groupe de Recherches Archeologiques de Montsegur et Environs (GRAME) which conducted a definitive thirteen year archeological excavation of Montsegur and its vicinity in 1964 -1976, concluded in its final report that: "There remains no trace of the actual ruin of the first fortress which was abandoned before the 13th century (Montsegur I), nor of the one which was built by Raymond de Pereille around 1210 (Montsegur II)..."

(See:Groupe de Recherches Archeologiques de Montsegur et Environs (GRAME), Montsegur: 13 ans de rechreche archeologique, Lavelanet: 1981. pg. 76.:"Il ne reste aucune trace dan les ruines actuelles ni du premier chateau que etait a l'abandon au debut du XII siecle (Montsegur I), ni de celui que construisit Raimon de Pereilles vers 1210 (Montsegur II)...")
The small ruins of the terraced dwellings, however, immediately outside the perimeter of the current fortress walls on the north-eastern flank, are confirmed to be traces of authentic former Cathar habitations.
( For further discussion on this issue see: http://www.cathares.org/heresis/heresis33-49.html
and http://www.cathares.org/montsegur.html )

Fatima · Jun 28, 2011

DreamWeaver said:
Because they were Latin Christians. They wanted much the same as everybody else who went on crusade, the absolution of their sins. nYou will find no crosses in side, perhaps because it is a ruin.

I can assure you Krak des Chevalliers isntin Cambridge, its in Syria.

Prove it, please, that they were Christians. I have no proof.

DreamWeaver · Jun 28, 2011

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krak_des_Chevaliers"]Krak des Chevaliers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

Well here is the ever so convenient wiki page, for what its worth.

It was in the hands of the Knights Hospitaller from the 1140's until its capture. It appears in their records.

Regesta Regni Hierosolymitani 210.

Fatima · Jun 28, 2011

Do you thik I am joking? No, my picture is not a joke.

Crusader Cross | Buy Antiquities Here

Fatima · Jun 28, 2011

DreamWeaver said:
Krak des Chevaliers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Well here is the ever so convenient wiki page, for what its worth.

It was in the hands of the Knights Hospitaller from the 1140's until its capture. It appears in their records.

Regesta Regni Hierosolymitani 210.

And what? Show me please only one Christian crusader cross - they must had a cross, as a symbol, if they were the Christians.

Wikipedia and historians have s,,,t on your brains. They think you're a sheep.
There is XXI century now, not XI.

david II · Jun 28, 2011

Fatima said:
And what? Show me please only one Christian crusader cross - they must had a cross, as a symbol, if they were the Christians.

Wikipedia and historians have s,,,t on your brains. They think you're a sheep.
There is XXI century now, not XI.

Historians don't doubt that Krak Des Chevaliers was a Hosptaller castle. It is well documented in both Christian and Muslim sources from the period.

There may be no surviving crosses for many reasons, the main one being that the Hospitallers lost the castle to Muslim forces in the 13th century. So, technically, it has been held by Christians for only a small portion of its existence, and I wouldn't necessarily expect the Muslims who captured it to leave a bunch of Christian symbols all over the place.

Fatima · Jun 29, 2011

david II said:
Historians don't doubt that Krak Des Chevaliers was a Hosptaller castle. It is well documented in both Christian and Muslim sources from the period.

There may be no surviving crosses for many reasons, the main one being that the Hospitallers lost the castle to Muslim forces in the 13th century. So, technically, it has been held by Christians for only a small portion of its existence, and I wouldn't necessarily expect the Muslims who captured it to leave a bunch of Christian symbols all over the place.

Not about Krak Des Chevaliers.
Try to Google "ancient crusader cross" "ancient crusader helmet" "ancient crusader relief"
I never post the pictures of the coins here. It is an exception
Crusader Coins Ancient | Ancient Coin Collecting

Fatima · Jun 29, 2011

reproduction probably

Search

Search

Krak des Chevaliers

Fatima

unclefred

Psellos

Salah

Fatima

Fatima

irishcrusader95

DreamWeaver

irishcrusader95

DreamWeaver

irishcrusader95

DreamWeaver

unclefred

Fatima

DreamWeaver

Fatima

Fatima

david II

Fatima

Fatima

More History Discussions

Recent History Discussions

Trending History Discussions