Opinion: Holy Roman Empire was a Roman successor state

Naomasa298
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Naomasa298

Joined Apr 2010
50,502 Posts | 11,794+
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athena said:
Oh of course, Istanbul is as Roman as the British Ilse and nothing was lost. Surely we should call the whole area Rome as the Holy Roman Empire was Roman and the empire ran that part of the world and nothing was lost. The explanations of the Renassaunce are just wrong.
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If anything, Constantinople - not "Istanbul", was MORE Roman than Britain was.

The fact that some aspects of Roman culture were lost in some former parts of the Empire does not mean they were lost everywhere, as you seem to think.
 
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SaintSaga

Joined Mar 2014
75 Posts | 32+
Brazil
athena said:
Oh of course, Istanbul is as Roman as the British Ilse and nothing was lost. Surely we should call the whole area Rome as the Holy Roman Empire was Roman and the empire ran that part of the world and nothing was lost. The explanations of the Renassaunce are just wrong.
Click to expand...
One of the factors behind Reinassance was the reintroduction of lost knowledge from ancient Greece and Rome,no?

That fact is that knowledge was never lost at all.It was just restricted to the Byzantines who were sucessors of Ancient Greece and Rome.

Byzantine scholars from 1200's to the 1400's reintroduced lost works to the west and help-desk developing humanism .
 
A

athena

Joined Jan 2010
5,972 Posts | 240+
Eugene, Oregon
Naomasa298 said:
If anything, Constantinople - not "Istanbul", was MORE Roman than Britain was.

The fact that some aspects of Roman culture were lost in some former parts of the Empire does not mean they were lost everywhere, as you seem to think.
Click to expand...

Oh, you are a mind reader. We know what others think without even asking questions. The story of the Renaissance is fascinating and if the information were not lost and rediscovered, Europe would be doing no better than the Mayans or any peoples who survived the fall of their civilizations and lost what they had achieved. Had it not been for the Renaissance, we would still be living in filth and hunting witches.
 
A

athena

Joined Jan 2010
5,972 Posts | 240+
Eugene, Oregon
SaintSaga said:
One of the factors behind Reinassance was the reintroduction of lost knowledge from ancient Greece and Rome,no?

That fact is that knowledge was never lost at all.It was just restricted to the Byzantines who were sucessors of Ancient Greece and Rome.

Byzantine scholars from 1200's to the 1400's reintroduced lost works to the west and help-desk developing humanism .
Click to expand...
I am having a problem with not seeing the fall of Easter Island, Aztecs, and Mayans as equal to the fall of Rome. We know how they constructed their buildings and why they were built because the information is in the buildings and roads. No information was lost, people just got really stupid and couldn't figure out how to live as their ancestors did.

You all can ignore the following because facts are not important to this discussion.

The Vatican Library & Renaissance Culture Humanism​

https://www.loc.gov › exhibits › vatican › humanism

The great intellectual movement of Renaissance Italy was humanism, which believed that all necessary knowledge is in the Greek and Latin texts.
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The Orthodox Church of the Byzantines was not the same as the Church that took over when Rome in the west fell. I think history is a little more interesting than how it is being presented here.
 
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athena

Joined Jan 2010
5,972 Posts | 240+
Eugene, Oregon
Humanism - Rome Reborn: The Vatican Library & Renaissance Culture | Exhibitions - Library of Congress
Naomasa298 said:
If anything, Constantinople - not "Istanbul", was MORE Roman than Britain was.
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The US is not the same as it was only 200 years ago. The evolution of Rome in the East was not the same as the de-evolution of Rome in the west. The Orthodox Church of Byzantines strongly influenced the evolution of Russia and lead to Russians turning against the Christian religion.

Where is Istanbul in relation to Constantinople?
 
Naomasa298
United-Kingdom

Naomasa298

Joined Apr 2010
50,502 Posts | 11,794+
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athena said:
Oh, you are a mind reader. We know what others think without even asking questions.
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I don't need to read your mind. Your posts say everything about what you think.

Where do you think that information that the Renaissance "rediscovered" came from? Do you know what language texts preserved by Western European churches was in? And do you know where Greek texts were studied? I'll give you a clue, it starts with "B".
 
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Naomasa298
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Naomasa298

Joined Apr 2010
50,502 Posts | 11,794+
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athena said:
The US is not the same as it was only 200 years ago. The evolution of Rome in the East was not the same as the de-evolution of Rome in the west.
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All civilisations evolve. The Romans would have evolved had they remained a single extant empire. Your point being?
 
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athena

Joined Jan 2010
5,972 Posts | 240+
Eugene, Oregon
Naomasa298 said:
Where do you think that information that the Renaissance "rediscovered" came from? Do you know what language texts preserved by Western European churches was in? And do you know where Greek texts were studied? I'll give you a clue, it starts with "B".
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You win, you know everything I do not. Game over.
 
Naomasa298
United-Kingdom

Naomasa298

Joined Apr 2010
50,502 Posts | 11,794+
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athena said:
You win, you know everything I do not. Game over.
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You clearly do not like it when people point out that you are wrong. I suggest, if you want to spend your time here productively, you get over that.
 
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European-Union

Cernunnos

Joined May 2021
882 Posts | 562+
Europe
athena said:
The Orthodox Church of the Byzantines was not the same as the Church that took over when Rome in the west fell. I think history is a little more interesting than how it is being presented here.
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Actually they were the same church when Rome fell in 476, they were one church until the schism of 1054.

Also the byzantines had signifcant influence in Italy until the 10th century. Venice owes its existance to the Byzantine reconquest of Italy.
 
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athena

Joined Jan 2010
5,972 Posts | 240+
Eugene, Oregon
Naomasa298 said:
You clearly do not like it when people point out that you are wrong. I suggest, if you want to spend your time here productively, you get over that.
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If thought I was wrong, there would be much less of a problem.
 
M
Italy

Michele A

Joined Apr 2021
4,208 Posts | 3,218+
Italy
SaintSaga said:
One of the factors behind Reinassance was the reintroduction of lost knowledge from ancient Greece and Rome,no?

That fact is that knowledge was never lost at all.It was just restricted to the Byzantines who were sucessors of Ancient Greece and Rome.

Byzantine scholars from 1200's to the 1400's reintroduced lost works to the west and help-desk developing humanism .
Click to expand...

Huh, it wasn't restricted to Byzantines only. Several key treatises by Aristotles were recovered from their Arabic translations, and without them, there would not have been the Aquinas' scholastic medieval philosophy.
 
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athena

Joined Jan 2010
5,972 Posts | 240+
Eugene, Oregon
Naomasa298 said:
Whether you *think* you are wrong or not has no bearing on whether you ARE wrong or not.
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That may be true, but want I think is right and what I think about you is not in agreement with what you think.
 
betgo

betgo

Joined Jul 2011
11,340 Posts | 2,849+
charlie ia said:
no no, the classical roman empire was indeed a state, very much a state. so much that the early US rushed to cloak itself under the same aesthetics and rethorics.
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The US copied the Roman Republic, not the Roman Empire, for obvious ideological reasons.
 
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Oldandeasilycofused

Joined Dec 2021
8,823 Posts | 4,298+
Australia
Naomasa298 said:
You clearly do not like it when people point out that you are wrong. I suggest, if you want to spend your time here productively, you get over that.
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To be fair, she's not the only one. I don't care for being told I'm wrong either. Don't mind quite as much if my wrong headedness is explained with wit, without the whole "you're wrong and I'm right " dichotomy . In my experience, life is seldom that simple :rolleyes:
 
Naomasa298
United-Kingdom

Naomasa298

Joined Apr 2010
50,502 Posts | 11,794+
Awesome
Oldandeasilycofused said:
To be fair, she's not the only one. I don't care for being told I'm wrong either. Don't mind quite as much if my wrong headedness is explained with wit, without the whole "you're wrong and I'm right " dichotomy . In my experience, life is seldom that simple :rolleyes:
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Please don't get involved.
 
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