The Greatness of Britain

vans · Oct 20, 2024

The Elephant said:
When you talk about Great Britain at that time and its achievements, you are talking about four countries together (England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales) and all the resources and expertise, in all the different ways needed to be successful. For instance could England have done it on its own and become Great England? Probably not.

That is very true, the Irish and Scottish played a huge part in the running and expansion of the Empire. They also helped build and develop industries like the canals, railway, ship building etc. But as has been mentioned Great Britain is a geographic not a political reference so it already includes Scotland and Wales. But as you rightly suggest excludes the island of Ireland

The Elephant · Oct 20, 2024

vans said:
That is very true, the Irish and Scottish played a huge part in the running and expansion of the Empire. They also helped build and develop industries like the canals, railway, ship building etc. But as has been mentioned Great Britain is a geographic not a political reference so it already includes Scotland and Wales. But as you rightly suggest excludes the island of Ireland

The Empire grew the most during the political entity known as The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland (1801-1922), a sovereign state in north west Europe with the union of the kingdom of Great Britain and the kingdom of Ireland. The Union Jack flag was created for this purpose with St George's (England), St Patrick's (Ireland) and St Andrew's ( Scotland) crosses all being represented in the flag. Dublin became the second city of the Empire and Ireland was relativity happy with its contribution and position within the Empire. It was only the rebellion in 1916 (which shocked the vast majority of people in Ireland) that changed that very solid relationship at that time.

Naomasa298 · Oct 20, 2024

Poor St. David.

dubsar · Oct 20, 2024

AlpinLuke said:
Frankly speaking, I cannot find in history an insular power able to do what Britain did.

Are there ANY groups of islands in Afro-Eurasia as big as the UK except Japan? And the British empire is one of the three or five biggest in world history so its a small sample.

Powers in Southeast Asia such as Srivijaya - Wikipedia organized themselves differently because the geography and climate did not make for large European-style states.

Willempie · Oct 20, 2024

dubsar said:
Are there ANY groups of islands in Afro-Eurasia as big as the UK except Japan? And the British empire is one of the three or five biggest in world history so its a small sample.

Powers in Southeast Asia such as Srivijaya - Wikipedia organized themselves differently because the geography and climate did not make for large European-style states.

Philippines, Indonesia, heck some of the Indonesian islands are bigger than GB, like Sumatra.

Wickerman · Oct 20, 2024

Naomasa298 said:
If conquering makes one great, then so was Hitler.

At least he single-handedly created the most jobs world wide.

Wickerman · Oct 20, 2024

AlpinLuke said:
Anyway it's out of doubt that English has become the main international language.

I only learned quite recently (a decade is pretty recent to me), that English is the International Aviation Language.
Regardless what country a pilot is flying in, he must speak English.

dubsar · Oct 20, 2024

Willempie said:
Philippines, Indonesia, heck some of the Indonesian islands are bigger than GB, like Sumatra.

I already ruled out Southeast Asia because climate and geography (Southeast Asian states and empires tended to take distinctive forms). The Philippines are also a chain of islands of moderate size.

Madagascar was too far away from anywhere important to unify then imperialize.

AlpinLuke · Oct 20, 2024

Wickerman said:
I only learned quite recently (a decade is pretty recent to me), that English is the International Aviation Language.
Regardless what country a pilot is flying in, he must speak English.

Eh, my big brother studied to become a air-traffic controller at MPX [Malpensa Airport, Milan] during the "Malpensa 2000" project.
He wasn't able to get the job, but he noted that everything was in English. in particular the alphabet is curious. It had created in the 50's by the International Civil Aviatio Organization [and this is why it's called "ICAO code". Someone call's it "NATO alphabet", but that's not correct, technically].

The ICAO is the "son" of the naval "ITU" [in the 20's the commercial fleets had the same problem of international communication].
But before of the ICAO became universal there was a period of confusion after the end of WWII because in some contexts they kept on using the Able-Baker alphabet.

Thinking to the alphabet, its purpose is to make acronyms understandable reducing to the minimun the possibility of misunderstanding or confusion.
This seems to be the reason why, quite recently the word "Football" has been substituted by the word "Foxtrot". Studies found out that "Foxtrot" is more recognizable when pronounced among other letters of the phonetic alphabet.

RandomRodent · Oct 21, 2024

dubsar said:
I already ruled out Southeast Asia because climate and geography (Southeast Asian states and empires tended to take distinctive forms). The Philippines are also a chain of islands of moderate size.

Madagascar was too far away from anywhere important to unify then imperialize.

Why?

I mean I think to qualify as a theory rather than an assertion you need to come up with a more substantial basis for your argument in ignoring the above mentioned islands. Especially as the Philippines, Indonesia and Madagascar have all been able to form relatively stable states post 1945. If Zanzibar was able to control a relatively extensive mainland empire what precluded Madagascar for example?

iknowhis · Oct 21, 2024

just how great is Britain,are they greater than their allies are they more advanced than their foes,just put it this way Britain are very well capable

dubsar · Oct 21, 2024

RandomRodent said:
I mean I think to qualify as a theory rather than an assertion you need to come up with a more substantial basis for your argument in ignoring the above mentioned islands. Especially as the Philippines, Indonesia and Madagascar have all been able to form relatively stable states post 1945. If Zanzibar was able to control a relatively extensive mainland empire what precluded Madagascar for example?

The heat, humidity, and mountains made it extremely hard to build large, long-lasting states which controlled the hinterland in Southeast Asia. The distance from Jerusalem in space and climate made it hard for Christianity or Islam to dominate and bring their imperialism-friendly cultural package. (The rulers who had Angkor Wat built seem to have been more or less Hindus). And because the climate destroys skin and paper, early Southeast Asian states are not part of Anglo pop culture. So few people have heard of entities like Srivijaya - Wikipedia like they have heard or European or Chinese dynasties. Southeast Asia is BIG and lots of political entities emerged, grew, and fell apart within it.

It has taken scientific medicine, Electrical Age civil engineering, a whole European cultural package and TIME to build European-style states in Southeast Asia and we don't know how they will last. 1945 is only 80 years ago and many Southeast Asian states lasted for longer than that before the rains stopped coming or people started to whisper that the rulers were worshiping the wrong way or a big plague hit.

dubsar · Oct 21, 2024

Sweden functions a lot like an island and had periods of overseas imperialism but it had a small population due to climate and geography, Charles XII of Sweden ran into the expanding empire of Russia. Sweden also had trouble accessing the North Sea due to Denmark. An alternate-history Kalmar Union might have been a really big empire.

Some rulers of Syracuse built overseas empires, but Sicily is too close to both North Africa and Italy which had their own powerful states (and Sicily is not very big or rich in resources). You can imagine an alternative history where things developed differently.

AlpinLuke · Oct 21, 2024

dubsar said:
Sweden functions a lot like an island and had periods of overseas imperialism but it had a small population due to climate and geography, Charles XII of Sweden ran into the expanding empire of Russia. Sweden also had trouble accessing the North Sea due to Denmark. An alternate-history Kalmar Union might have been a really big empire.

Some rulers of Syracuse built overseas empires, but Sicily is too close to both North Africa and Italy which had their own powerful states (and Sicily is not very big or rich in resources). You can imagine an alternative history where things developed differently.

Geography influences history, this is obvious.
Let's consider the isolation of a great [enough great] isle with a mild climate near a very alive continent.
Sea has been a trouble for armies [and it's still is].

When you have got a border with Revolutionary France you cannot live in peace developing science and technology ...
The United Kingdom had a natural defense which separated it from Revolutionary France in those decades.

But, on the other hand, it's not said that a people can be enough smart to take advantage from an advantageous geographical context.
It's not said at all. The British People was able to do that.

Angelica · Oct 21, 2024

Britain's power was great the owned most of the new world had France et al under her thumb. One that came out of her is now a super power their ancestors brought over the same industrialization and exploitation mentality. Countries outside of Britain were exploited for revenues. Britain's dynasty was far reaching....

Naomasa298 · Oct 21, 2024

iknowhis said:
just how great is Britain,are they greater than their allies are they more advanced than their foes,just put it this way Britain are very well capable

You know what else we're capable of doing? We're capable of identifying multiaccounters, mrthink. You would think that after have had one warning about violating the rules, you would actually read them to find out what you are not allowed to do, but apparently not.

peccavi · Oct 21, 2024

AlpinLuke said:
Eh, my big brother studied to become a air-traffic controller at MPX [Malpensa Airport, Milan] during the "Malpensa 2000" project.
He wasn't able to get the job, but he noted that everything was in English. in particular the alphabet is curious. It had created in the 50's by the International Civil Aviatio Organization [and this is why it's called "ICAO code". Someone call's it "NATO alphabet", but that's not correct, technically].

The ICAO is the "son" of the naval "ITU" [in the 20's the commercial fleets had the same problem of international communication].
But before of the ICAO became universal there was a period of confusion after the end of WWII because in some contexts they kept on using the Able-Baker alphabet.

Thinking to the alphabet, its purpose is to make acronyms understandable reducing to the minimun the possibility of misunderstanding or confusion.
This seems to be the reason why, quite recently the word "Football" has been substituted by the word "Foxtrot". Studies found out that "Foxtrot" is more recognizable when pronounced among other letters of the phonetic alphabet.

And the number "Three" is to be pronounced Tree - the "th" sound being quite difficult for some foreign language speakers - and also English speakers, eg Irish!

The Elephant · Oct 22, 2024

peccavi said:
And the number "Three" is to be pronounced Tree - the "th" sound being quite difficult for some foreign language speakers - and also English speakers, eg Irish!

Most of the English guys I know particularly in the south of England pronounce the word 'Three' in a different way. They say 'Free'

peccavi · Oct 22, 2024

The Elephant said:
Most of the English guys I know particularly in the south of England pronounce the word 'Three' in a different way. They say 'Free'

Come to (Fink) of it yre right mate

AlpinLuke · Oct 22, 2024

peccavi said:
And the number "Three" is to be pronounced Tree - the "th" sound being quite difficult for some foreign language speakers - and also English speakers, eg Irish!

What amused my brother more was the APP [Approach].
You need a higher level of specialization to manage the APP [at least in Italy].
There is a critical aspect: there are two actors who are active in the same time: the TWR and the Area Control.
If the TWR controls the traffic in the immediate nearby of the airport [it's the ATZ, Aerodrome Traffic Zone] the Area Control [the name says it] controls it in a well wider volume of atmosphere.

It's a game between SID and SIA [Standard Instrument Departure and Standard Instrument Approach] and [at least in a simulator, since my brother never got the job] it's quite amusing. But reality with the related emotions and stress is probably well different.

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