Examples where the rulers spoke a different language to their people

[Lawnmowerman]

Just watched this interesting video

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFohTu9n8_Q"]https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFohTu9n8_Q[/ame]

In it he gives several examples of cases in which the rulers speak a different language to their subjects.

He focuses mainly on Ancient Rome pointing out that the ruling elite spoke Greek and their subjects Latin.

To my surprise he also mentions that the Romanovs spoke French rather than Latin and that Hirohito spoke such an archaic form of Japanese that most people couldn't understand him when he broadcast Japans surrender to them in 1945.

Thinking of other examples. In England the Kings spoke French for hundreds of years. George I, II and III spoke German.

Can you think of any other examples, how about the Mughals in India?? or Portuguese in Brazil??

 

[Salah]

The Crusader states in Outremer are a great example - the rulers speaking French, the common people predominately Arabic.

 

[peccavi]

This guy is wrong - the Roman elite did speak Latin.

But a bit like Hirohito, it was a classical form. Roman education laid great stress on on correct grammar and speech - trouble was that by the 4th Century this was as remote from vulgar Latin of the masses as present day English is from the English of Shakepeare

 

[Devdas]

Mughal Empire

Court language: Persian, subjects spoke various Indo-Aryan and Dravidian languages.

British Empire in India

Official language: English; People spoke different Indo-Aryan, Dravidian, Austro-Asiatic, Tibeto-Burmese and East Iranian languages.

 

[Domhnall Balloch]

Most of the higher levels of feudal Europe spoke regional lingua francae (French, German, Greek) more than indigenous ones of the nation that lived in their land. They also spoke Latin, an international language. They were in many ways an international 'nation' all to themselves, being able to identify with and speak to each other no matter county of origin, and completely alien to the people they ruled.

To give a few examples, Richard the Lionheart famously didn't speak conversational English. William the Conqueror never got that far. Many Scots kings did not learn Gaelic (though their influence over parts of their country may not classify as 'rule') and Crusader kings rarely learned Arabic or Aramaic. Good old Hungary was under French-speaking kings for quite some time, the Balkans under the Ottomans, and Greeks and even Crimeans under Italians.

This guy is wrong - the Roman elite did speak Latin.

But a bit like Hirohito, it was a classical form. Roman education laid great stress on on correct grammar and speech - trouble was that by the 4th Century this was as remote from vulgar Latin of the masses as present day English is from the English of Shakepeare

This happened in a lot of cultures. Japan too. Many European places. Vulgar Latin probably could be considered a separate language from that of elites in certain places, especially where pre-Roman cultural influence was still part of the vernacular.

 

[pugsville]

England after the Norman conquest for generation. How many of the George's spoke English? The First Greek king was German, often countries sought outside nobles to be Kings as that was preferable to elevate one of their own as it caused rivalries.

 

[Marklas]

Russian Empire,Byzantium,Macedon Empire?

 

[kauchenvinci-0]

Along with the Mughals and British Empire, the Sultans of Delhi spoke a different language from their Subjects.

 

[kazeuma]

William of Orange and George the First barely spoke English, but the latter is considered one of England's best Kings so much so they have named at least seven (seven if you include Charles Philip Arthur George, the Current prince of Wales, who has said that if Elizabeth II dies he might take the name George because he felt bad for George III) kings named George.

 

[1991sudarshan]

The Mughals initially used language ancestor of modern Uzbek and but later started using Persian. 18th and 19th century, Urdu became dominant I guess.


The reverse happened in China, The Manchu conquered China, but they were absorbed into Chinese culture. Later Qing emperors started encouraging their ministers to us Manchu language. But that did not go well.

The Nayaks of Madurai, spoke Telugu and the subjects spoke Tamil.

The Nayaks were the promoted people by the Vijayanagar empire,who took up Telugu language.

The Bhonsle dynasty of Tanjore, spoke Marathi and the subjects spoke Tamil.

 

[JTeale]

The Dutch leader at the start of the Eighty Years' War - William of Orange - hardly spoke a word of Dutch. According to the myth, after getting shot and moments before passing away, his last words were: "Mon Dieu, mon Dieu, ayez pitié de moi et de ce pauvre peuple" (My God, my God, have pity on me and on my poor people). Of course, this being in French, his mourning and grieving subjects didn't find much comfort in these words either.

 

[Bart Dale]

Just watched this interesting video

https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFohTu9n8_Q

In it he gives several examples of cases in which the rulers speak a different language to their subjects.

He focuses mainly on Ancient Rome pointing out that the ruling elite spoke Greek and their subjects Latin.

He is wrong, in that while the Roman elite were very fluent in Greek, they did not speak Greek as their daily language at home. To be fluent in Greek did not mean they "spoke Greek" in their ordinary conversation between their friends which is the sense he is implying.

Thinking of other examples. In England the Kings spoke French for hundreds of years. George I, II and III spoke German.[/B]

George I did speak German, but George III most definitely spoke English.

Can you think of any other examples, how about the Mughals in India?? or Portuguese in Brazil??

I imagine Ghengis Khan might not have spoken Chinese, and the first Manchu rulers might have spoken MLanchu rather than Chinese.

 

[Mosquito]

First of all the Roman elite did speak Greek because it was part of their education but even more often speak classic latin which common people didnt speak especialy since 2nd century AD and later.

Most of the higher levels of feudal Europe spoke regional lingua francae (French, German, Greek) more than indigenous ones of the nation that lived in their land. They also spoke Latin, an international language. They were in many ways an international 'nation' all to themselves, being able to identify with and speak to each other no matter county of origin, and completely alien to the people they ruled.

When in 1573 large Polish delegation (all together about 1000 people) came to Paris to hand Henri de Valois certificate of election to the throne of Poland-Lithuania and negotiate conditions of accepting him for the king of PLC, Polish nobles complained that there are almost no educated people on the French court, that French aristocracy doesnt know latin and is unable to communicate in this language. The second most popular language on the Polish court was Italian and many Polish nobles in 16th century studied in Italy but it looks like that French also didnt speak Italian language.

 

[Wodz Mikolaj]

Picking up on Mosquito's point, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth is a good example of a state where the rulers spoke a different language to the people they ruled. A lot of the magnates in the portion belonging to the Grand Duchy of Lithuania spoke Polish during the 16th-18th centuries, while many of the commoners they ruled would have had Lithuanian or Belarusian as a first language.

 

[pikeshot1600]

The Emperor Charles V grew up at Ghent and primarily spoke French. When he went to Spain he evidently was faced by the various Cortes with learning Castilian, etc. as a "requirement." However his claims to the Iberian kingdoms were legitimate regardless of language. Although he probably did learn enough Spanish and Catalan out of necessity, the king tended to appoint many Flemish officials and other Low Countries experts to his councils. That was because he could perhaps better trust them, and because he could certainly better communicate with them in French.

As mentioned in post #11 the Nassauer of the Dutch Netherlands also spoke French as a primary language, even though they were of German origin and held allodial lands there.

Frederick the Great mostly spoke, wrote, and perhaps thought in French. It was said he only spoke German to his horse.

Of course as mentioned previously, a number of kings of England/Great Britain did not speak English at all. French after the Normans of course was obvious. George I it seems surrounded himself with some German advisors (or ministers?) who conversed with Englishmen in Latin. AFAIK George III spoke English, although I do not know if Geo II ever managed it much.

 

[Domhnall Balloch]

William of Orange and George the First barely spoke English, but the latter is considered one of England's best Kings so much so they have named at least seven (seven if you include Charles Philip Arthur George, the Current prince of Wales, who has said that if Elizabeth II dies he might take the name George because he felt bad for George III) kings named George

Eight, if you count the only baby to get his face on milk cartons without going missing

 

[Saviour]

Mughals spoke Turkic till 1750 while subjects spoke many languages Hindi-Urdu being most widespread.

Romanov are famous for knowing only French rather than Russian.

 

[dreamregent]

This was almost certainly the case during a number of periods in ancient Mesopotamia as well. For example, Babylonian was not the native language of the Kassites and Mittanian rulers were Indo-Iranians who subjugated a largely Hurrian population.

 

[srb7677]

King William I of England - aka William the Conquerer - who was king from the time of the Norman conquest in 1066 until his death in 1087. He spoke Norman French, whilst most of the people spoke Old English. The two languages had yet to merge to form the precurser to modern English.

 

[Futurist]

What about the various family members of his whom Napoleon Bonaparte chose to lead French puppet states in other parts of Europe? Would they work for this?