Greatest Knight in Christendom/ Islam
- Thread starter okamido
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- christendom or islam knight
Joined Jun 2009
29,886 Posts | 49+
land of Califia
Never too late for contribution. I personally, have never heard of this individual. Could you give a little background?
Joined Sep 2010
9,998 Posts | 4+
Bahrain
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My candidate is a knight from my country:
Zawisza Czarny z Garbowa (Zawisza the Black of Garbów, also known as The Black Knight), was a Polish knight and nobleman. He served as a soldier and diplomat under the Polish king Władysław II and Hungarian-Bohemian king Sigismund of Luxembourg. During his life, he was regarded as a model of knightly virtues and was renowned for winning multiple tournaments. His nickname is due to his black hair and his custom-made, black armor, which is kept at the Jasna Góra Monastery.
In 1410 he took part in the Battle of Grunwald against the Teutonic Order. After the battle he proposed a peace treaty between the King Jagiełło of Poland and King Sigismund of Luxembourg of Hungary, which came to be known as the Treaty of Lubowla. In 1412 he participated in the conference between Sigismund, Wladyslaw II and Tvrtko II of Bosnia at Buda, where he won the tournament held there, with 1500 knights present.
Zawisza was a diplomat as often as a warrior, being many times an envoy for the Polish king Władysław II and Hungarian-Bohemian king Sigismund of Luxembourg. As one of six diplomats that represented the Polish Kingdom and king Władysław Jagiełło at the Council of Constance, where he was one a very few supporters of the church reformer Jan Hus and consequently strongly opposed his condemnation and subsequent execution.
In 1416 he participated in a tournament in Perpignan in which he defeated the well-known knight John of Aragon.
Zawisza participated in the Hussite Wars on the side of king Sigismund.
In 1428, Zawisza, with his retinue as a commander of light horse banner of 500 horsemen, joined the forces of Sigismund in the king's war against the Ottoman Turks. During that disastrous campaign he fought the Turks at the Battle of Golubac on the Danube in modern-day Serbia. Sigismund army was defeated by the Turkish forces. They had to retreat across the Danube, with only a few boats to ferry the troops over to safety. Zawisza's banner was guarding the retreating army. Being a man of importance, he was personally sent for by king Sigismund. He allegedly refused to retreat, disheartened by king's apparent cowardice. He was either killed in combat or executed in Turkish captivity.
Zawisza Czarny z Garbowa (Zawisza the Black of Garbów, also known as The Black Knight), was a Polish knight and nobleman. He served as a soldier and diplomat under the Polish king Władysław II and Hungarian-Bohemian king Sigismund of Luxembourg. During his life, he was regarded as a model of knightly virtues and was renowned for winning multiple tournaments. His nickname is due to his black hair and his custom-made, black armor, which is kept at the Jasna Góra Monastery.
In 1410 he took part in the Battle of Grunwald against the Teutonic Order. After the battle he proposed a peace treaty between the King Jagiełło of Poland and King Sigismund of Luxembourg of Hungary, which came to be known as the Treaty of Lubowla. In 1412 he participated in the conference between Sigismund, Wladyslaw II and Tvrtko II of Bosnia at Buda, where he won the tournament held there, with 1500 knights present.
Zawisza was a diplomat as often as a warrior, being many times an envoy for the Polish king Władysław II and Hungarian-Bohemian king Sigismund of Luxembourg. As one of six diplomats that represented the Polish Kingdom and king Władysław Jagiełło at the Council of Constance, where he was one a very few supporters of the church reformer Jan Hus and consequently strongly opposed his condemnation and subsequent execution.
In 1416 he participated in a tournament in Perpignan in which he defeated the well-known knight John of Aragon.
Zawisza participated in the Hussite Wars on the side of king Sigismund.
In 1428, Zawisza, with his retinue as a commander of light horse banner of 500 horsemen, joined the forces of Sigismund in the king's war against the Ottoman Turks. During that disastrous campaign he fought the Turks at the Battle of Golubac on the Danube in modern-day Serbia. Sigismund army was defeated by the Turkish forces. They had to retreat across the Danube, with only a few boats to ferry the troops over to safety. Zawisza's banner was guarding the retreating army. Being a man of importance, he was personally sent for by king Sigismund. He allegedly refused to retreat, disheartened by king's apparent cowardice. He was either killed in combat or executed in Turkish captivity.
Joined Jun 2011
2,141 Posts | 2+
California, USA
Godefroy de Bouillon (but i think that before the end of the crusade, the most famous and feared knight was Bohemond of Taranto), Jean de Grailly, William Marshall, John Chandos, John Talbot, the Constable Richemont, Xaintrailles...
Bit I think of another knight, not very well-known but who seemed to be the ideal christian knight : Gaston IV of Bearn. He participated into the first crusade but during the sack of Jerusalem, he save many inhabitants (muslim, jews or christians) from the wrath of the other crusaders (it should be noted that neither Godefroy de Bouillon nor Raymond of Toulouse, the two main commanders participated into this massacre). Then, he refused to have his own state in the holy land and chose to return to his homeland instead. And finally, he participated in the reconquista in Spain and was killed during the siege of Saragossa.
Bit I think of another knight, not very well-known but who seemed to be the ideal christian knight : Gaston IV of Bearn. He participated into the first crusade but during the sack of Jerusalem, he save many inhabitants (muslim, jews or christians) from the wrath of the other crusaders (it should be noted that neither Godefroy de Bouillon nor Raymond of Toulouse, the two main commanders participated into this massacre). Then, he refused to have his own state in the holy land and chose to return to his homeland instead. And finally, he participated in the reconquista in Spain and was killed during the siege of Saragossa.
Joined Oct 2009
23,286 Posts | 99+
Maryland
Never too late for contribution. I personally, have never heard of this individual. Could you give a little background?
A Kurdish mercenary chief, he conquered Fatimid Egypt whilst operating as a general under Nur ad-Din, successor to Zangi in Iraq. Salah ad-Din was not only his nephew, but also his successor as the Zangid governor of Egypt.
Joined Aug 2010
10,440 Posts | 17+
Wales
Islam: Usama Ibn-Munqidh
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usama_ibn_Munqidh"]Usama ibn Munqidh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
Not going to go with Saladin, sorry, he seems awfully popular but Im a bit to sceptical.
William Marshall, he really is a good choice, hard to think of many better. Might try for the Black Prince.
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usama_ibn_Munqidh"]Usama ibn Munqidh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
Not going to go with Saladin, sorry, he seems awfully popular but Im a bit to sceptical.
William Marshall, he really is a good choice, hard to think of many better. Might try for the Black Prince.
Joined Aug 2010
10,440 Posts | 17+
Wales
Joined May 2011
15,791 Posts | 1,621+
Navan, Ireland
Has anyone mentioned Jean Parisot de Valette
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Parisot_de_la_Valette]Jean Parisot de la Valette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
Another could be Sir John Hawkwood.
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hawkwood]John Hawkwood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Parisot_de_la_Valette]Jean Parisot de la Valette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
Another could be Sir John Hawkwood.
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hawkwood]John Hawkwood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
Joined Nov 2007
7,628 Posts | 9+
Alba
He was one of Bruce's command staff (even though such things didn't exist at the time) and the man who was chosen to carry the Bruce's heart to the Holy Land...
James Douglas, Lord of Douglas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.historum.com/medieval-byzantine-history/7899-teba.html
For more information, try "James the Good: the Black Douglas" by David R Ross.
Salah ad-Din summarised Shirkuh in a nutshell. However I thought of another being this one is of Turkish descent and was one of the main leaders against the first Crusades during their time of conquest. His name is Kilij Arslan or 'Sword of the Lion' dont quote me on this but I read some where that he was the first encounter that the crusaders ever had with a standing Muslim army, he brought down a scouting party of over 30 000. Its funny because he believed that to be the crusade and was really disappointed because all he fought were weak peasants, however when the actual force of the Crusades came he fought valiantly however soon succumbed to defeat. His loss meant Nicaea his capital fell under the hands of the Crusaders. This did not deter him however as he kept up his attacks.
Using guerrilla and hit-and-run techniques he managed to hit the ranks of the crusaders. And brought their morale down in a very unique way. The crusader army was very large and constantly harvested near by crops and water wells to feed the 'Great Beast'. And so Arslan used this to his advantage, burnt down every crops of land destroyed any access to water that the Crusaders would have come across, leaving them hungry and thirsty. And because the Crusader army was not very mobile because of its immense it could not just simply change routes and risk to go in a direction which was an unknown path so all they could do was keep moving in the same path and hope that either they reach a sea-side city such as Acre or Arslan stops this strategy because he thinks it does not work.
Using guerrilla and hit-and-run techniques he managed to hit the ranks of the crusaders. And brought their morale down in a very unique way. The crusader army was very large and constantly harvested near by crops and water wells to feed the 'Great Beast'. And so Arslan used this to his advantage, burnt down every crops of land destroyed any access to water that the Crusaders would have come across, leaving them hungry and thirsty. And because the Crusader army was not very mobile because of its immense it could not just simply change routes and risk to go in a direction which was an unknown path so all they could do was keep moving in the same path and hope that either they reach a sea-side city such as Acre or Arslan stops this strategy because he thinks it does not work.
Joined Dec 2009
5,641 Posts | 52+
Canada
I'm surprised that with all the mentions of Salah ad-Din, nobody has mentioned Balian of Ibelin. Defended Jerusalem fiercely, but realized it was futile to fight to the death and surrendered it properly. However he was also to act as intermediary between Richard I and Salah ad-Din during the third Crusade. Ibelin was to remain under Salah ad-Din's control, but he had allowed the crusaders to maintain control along the coast, and Salah ad-Din even gave castle Caymont and five other sites just outside of Acre to Balian.
I'd nominate Hughes de Payns as well, if there was a detailed biography of him. But at least on the outset, he was neither ignoble or unchivalrous.
I'd nominate Hughes de Payns as well, if there was a detailed biography of him. But at least on the outset, he was neither ignoble or unchivalrous.
Joined Aug 2010
10,440 Posts | 17+
Wales
As much as I like Hawkwood (I find him an interesting character), does being a mercenary not undermine his role as a knight? Opinions?
Joined Aug 2010
10,440 Posts | 17+
Wales
I dont know about Balian of Ibelin, a character and something of a politcal operator, but he has recieved a very very good press post mortem, indeed all the Ibelins have since it was their supporters writing much of the source material. Sir Ridley Scott's depiction of him not withstanding. I would have put the preservtion of the coast down to Conrad of Montferrat rather than Balian. He's very active for a very brief period of time, not sure howmuch he racks up there with people like William Marshall.
Depends really. It was not uncommon for knights to ride off and fight in foreign wars they had nothing at stake in for glory and practice. Hawkwood just took the logical next step and started asking for money.
Joined May 2011
15,791 Posts | 1,621+
Navan, Ireland
To my 21st century mind -YES! undermines it completely
But should he not be judged in the context of his time?
Ruthless but effective what do you expect from a mercenary.
The whole concept of a nice romantic 'knight' did it ever really exist?
I like de la Valette and at the siege of Malta etc he was outstanding and embodied all of the principles of a Hospitaller , evem as Grandmaster he continued to treat and help the sick and poor in the Hospital.
However if you were a muslim sailor taken by one of his ships you may view him differently -- a slave trader?
Joined Aug 2010
10,440 Posts | 17+
Wales
What about Ferenc Nadasdy, whom the Ottoman Turks named the Black Knight of Hungary? His wife may be infamous for her crimes, but he is a national war hero.
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