Can we consider France a Germanic country?

deaf tuner · Oct 15, 2020

At Each Kilometer said:
i do believe @deaf tuner is referring to the Belgian fries on the photo, because this is what they are.

Now this is how a true historian looks like!

No fakes like "French fries", "macdow" and the rest can derail him.

vcnp2000 · Oct 15, 2020

OK French fries was a gift to America from France. BTW, I recalled another french gift

To Germanic America from Latin France

At Each Kilometer · Oct 15, 2020

...now i know what Hercule Poirot felt in such situations, we already established above that the fries in question are not French, heh..

PaulRyckier · Oct 15, 2020

Isleifson said:
The French Revolution was the end of the German France.

The French ruling class , since Clovis, was always considered to be German .

So the French Revolution was the final victory of the Gaulish against the invaders.

In the 19C under Napoléon III , Vercingétorix, become a national heroe.

The latest development of this Gaulish thing was the Gaulish Village with Astérix and Obélix.

Isleifson,

I agree that since Chlodovech, the French ruling class could be considered by the contemporaries as Salian Franks (descendants of Germanic speaking tribes)

And since Clovis (latinized Chlodovech), the rulers were nearly absorbed by the remaining Gaulish elite and had connections with the Latin Pope and Clovis was "consul" of the "Eastern Roman Empire.

But for me the real "Trendwende" (trend reversal?) came not after the French Revolution but rather already with the first Capetien: Hugues Capet
For me and I see now for many historians was that the first king of France (already fully embedded in France and in the earlier French language. and teh transition of Vulgar Latin to early French was then already in full shape...

Hugues Capet, premier roi Capétien - Histoire de France

Hugh Capet - New World Encyclopedia

www.newworldencyclopedia.org

Kind regards, Paul.

deaf tuner · Oct 22, 2020

At Each Kilometer said:
...now i know what Hercule Poirot felt in such situations, we already established above that the fries in question are not French, heh..

Aethelstench · Oct 22, 2020

Non, absolument pas!

PaulRyckier · Oct 26, 2020

Isleifson said:
The French Revolution was the end of the German France.

The French ruling class , since Clovis, was always considered to be German .

So the French Revolution was the final victory of the Gaulish against the invaders.

In the 19C under Napoléon III , Vercingétorix, become a national heroe.

The latest development of this Gaulish thing was the Gaulish Village with Astérix and Obélix.

More in answer to this message and further to our messages: # 113:

Isleifson said:
It take me less then a minute to find out who is French and who is German.
One minute to see who is Flemish and who is Walloon.
PaulRyckier said:
My dear European Romance/Germanic language border friend, of course for me also less than a minute to find out who is Flemish or Walloon as they both speak dialects one of Dutch
and the other of French, but I see them both eating French fries with mayonaise at a friture/friterie...or are it Belgian fries?

I started on a small English language forum a thread about one particular part of the European Romance/Germanic language border, which starts in Dunkirk( nowadays France) and passes also along the "Lorraine tudesque". A particular part: namely: "The Belgian language border".
And I agree that it is difficult to separate the linguistic, the cultural and the sociological aspect from each other in a given area as the nowadays Belgium and I think that each area has to have another approach and you and I know very well that the history of the Southern Netherlands is completely otherwise...or are there nevertheless some parallels?
BTW: my thread about the Romance-Germanic language border in Europe

Romance Germanic border Europe

Commented a message of LiR in the Tumbleweed: "Alsace-Lorraine (Elsass-Lothringen) ther you say something...we people of the "borderland" as I and my compagnon

reshistorica.forumotion.com

And you can be right if you mean by: "The French Revolution was the end of the German France."
that all dialects in France including foreign languages in their own right, had to be extinguished in favour of the national language that was the French of Paris.
As I learned in the Polish? essay in English language:

Language policy in the Netherlands - Scripta Neophilologica Posnaniensia - Issue 16 (2016) - CEJSH - Yadda

my thread about the "Belgian language border"

The Belgian language border

as LiR is interested in the Walloon dialects and MM is perhaps interested in Belgium as he lived there a time, I thought to post something about the Belgian lan

reshistorica.forumotion.com

Kind regards, Paul.

Walcund · Oct 27, 2020

Eryl Enki said:
They are at the core a Gallic/Celtic people with significant Germanic input in the North especially the Eastern part as well as Roman in the South. At the core they are Celts. The Germans also were quite significantly Celtic until they adopted their conquerors language. Eastern France and Western Germany are literally genetically almost the same people with different languages. They are probably more similar to each other than some people in different regions of their respective country. Northern France, the Benelux, Western Germany and South of England can roughly be classified as Western Europeans on a genetic chart. They are also some of the most powerful, innovative people in human history.

I'am not so sure in that! Especially after you check the great international scientific and math prizes and the size of the population..

deaf tuner · Oct 27, 2020

Walcund said:
Especially after you check the great international scientific and math prizes and the size of the population..

Because ofcourse, the great international scientific and math prizes are directly linked to the Celticness, Gaullishness, Germaness ...

Faramir · Oct 27, 2020

What I find interesting is that both Spain and France call Germany either Alemania or Allemagne and there is clearly a group East of the Rhine that appears to correspond with that naming.
In the embedded map of post #124 we can see the group or people designated as Alamannen .

deaf tuner · Oct 27, 2020

Faramir said:
What I find interesting is that both Spain and France call Germany either Alemania or Allemagne and there is clearly a group East of the Rhine that appears to correspond with that naming.
In the embedded map of post #124 we can see the group or people designated as Alamannen .

Well, Germans don't call themselves "Germans" either.

Faramir · Oct 27, 2020

deaf tuner said:
Well, Germans don't call themselves "Germans" either.

Yes interesting as well.
The Latin countries call us a variation of English for me with Anglais, Ingles.

At Each Kilometer · Oct 27, 2020

Anglia is the medieval Latin word for England used as a loanword in the most of the Slavic languages of today and several others as Romanian, a Romance tongue for example.
-----
Germans call themselves Dutch, that is why Pennsylvania Dutch are Germans and Modern Dutch (the language) is direct descendant of the Old Franconian, spoken by the Salian Franks, ergo the Dutch are Modern day Franks, ergo the Germans are Modern day Franks, ergo the Franks are everywhere.

Faramir · Oct 27, 2020

At Each Kilometer said:
Anglia is the medieval Latin word for England used as a loanword in the most of the Slavic languages of today and several others as Romanian, a Romance tongue for example.
-----
Germans call themselves Dutch, that is why Pennsylvania Dutch are Germans and Modern Dutch (the language) is direct descendant of the Old Franconian, spoken by the Salian Franks, ergo the Dutch are Modern day Franks, ergo the Germans are Modern day Franks, ergo the Franks are everywhere.

Haha, yes Deutsch does seem close to Dutch linguistically, as the for Franks it would seem though they may have given France their modern name, their modern language had different routes.

Isleifson · Oct 27, 2020

PaulRyckier said:
More in answer to this message and further to our messages: # 113:

I started on a small English language forum a thread about one particular part of the European Romance/Germanic language border, which starts in Dunkirk( nowadays France) and passes also along the "Lorraine tudesque". A particular part: namely: "The Belgian language border".
And I agree that it is difficult to separate the linguistic, the cultural and the sociological aspect from each other in a given area as the nowadays Belgium and I think that each area has to have another approach and you and I know very well that the history of the Southern Netherlands is completely otherwise...or are there nevertheless some parallels?
BTW: my thread about the Romance-Germanic language border in Europe

Romance Germanic border Europe

Commented a message of LiR in the Tumbleweed: "Alsace-Lorraine (Elsass-Lothringen) ther you say something...we people of the "borderland" as I and my compagnon

reshistorica.forumotion.com

And you can be right if you mean by: "The French Revolution was the end of the German France."
that all dialects in France including foreign languages in their own right, had to be extinguished in favour of the national language that was the French of Paris.
As I learned in the Polish? essay in English language:

Language policy in the Netherlands - Scripta Neophilologica Posnaniensia - Issue 16 (2016) - CEJSH - Yadda

my thread about the "Belgian language border"

The Belgian language border

as LiR is interested in the Walloon dialects and MM is perhaps interested in Belgium as he lived there a time, I thought to post something about the Belgian lan

reshistorica.forumotion.com

Kind regards, Paul.

Paul,

I am a Girondin and not a Jacobin so I don't consider that my language is not as good as the French of Paris.

The discussion about the root's of France is an old one : We have the Troyan origine, the Roman, the Gaulish, the Germanic.

A good book about the history of this is :

Isleifson · Oct 27, 2020

Faramir said:
What I find interesting is that both Spain and France call Germany either Alemania or Allemagne and there is clearly a group East of the Rhine that appears to correspond with that naming.
In the embedded map of post #124 we can see the group or people designated as Alamannen .

The Germanic tribe which settled in Alsace was Die Alamannen.

So the name Allemands is coming from that tribe.

The Alsatians are calling the German Schwoben, from the name of the tribe which is sitting on the other side of the Rhine. The Suabian's

vcnp2000 · Oct 27, 2020

At Each Kilometer said:
Anglia is the medieval Latin word for England used as a loanword in the most of the Slavic languages of today and several others as Romanian, a Romance tongue for example.
-----
Germans call themselves Dutch, that is why Pennsylvania Dutch are Germans and Modern Dutch (the language) is direct descendant of the Old Franconian, spoken by the Salian Franks, ergo the Dutch are Modern day Franks, ergo the Germans are Modern day Franks, ergo the Franks are everywhere.

Germans are "Nemtzi" in Slavic languages? Perhaps from a tribe Nemeti which lived somewhere in Bayern. Though "Nemeti" was their latin scientific name.

Eryl Enki · Oct 27, 2020

vcnp2000 said:
Germans are "Nemtzi" in Slavic languages? Perhaps from a tribe Nemeti which lived somewhere in Bayern. Though "Nemeti" was their latin scientific name.

I guess they are referred to by the tribe that was closest or they have the earliest encounter with. For example, the Germans refer to the France as Frankreich while the Greeks refer to them as Gallia.

vcnp2000 · Oct 27, 2020

vcnp2000 said:
Germans are "Nemtzi" in Slavic languages? Perhaps from a tribe Nemeti which lived somewhere in Bayern. Though "Nemeti" was their latin scientific name.

I'm sorry, Wikipedia informed me that Nemeti lived not in Bayern

PaulRyckier · Oct 27, 2020

vcnp2000 said:
Germans are "Nemtzi" in Slavic languages? Perhaps from a tribe Nemeti which lived somewhere in Bayern. Though "Nemeti" was their latin scientific name.

vcnp2000, those Slavic names for German comes from the Slavic word for "mute". See also the other explantions for allemand, Diets and all...

Etymology of German, deutsch, alemán, tedesco, etc.

German Note: some of these forms specifically mean "the German language" (like Chinese, Japanese, and Hebrew), while others are all purpose adjectives. The English word German comes from Latin germanus, germani "German," originally the name of a specific tribe. The name was eventually applied by…

linguaphiles.livejournal.com

Kind regards, Paul.

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Can we consider France a Germanic country?

deaf tuner

vcnp2000

At Each Kilometer

PaulRyckier