Well our very base --- democracy---came from Arabs. Greek works were preserved , translated , and passed on to the Europe by Arabs. Other than that , hospitals , universities , sanitation , Maths (numbers) , chemistry knowledge etc etc were all taken by Europeans from vast Islamic civilization , that was the dominant force of that time.
Eastern Influences on Europeans
- Thread starter antonina
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Joined Apr 2010
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Slovakia
Saint Basil's cathedral in Moscow (first picture of yours) is sort of architectural mystery. There is nothing analogous in Orthodox tradition. Nor in Byzantium, nor in Russia itself. Historians of architecture do not know if and what influenced it, it seems to be quit unique, not influenced by something before. Several speculations exist however.
Rest of the onion shaped towers are baroque, including wooden church on your picture. It was standard shape of bell towers all across Europe at that time, it is native European shape.
Joined Apr 2010
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Slovakia
Bulk of Greek works was passed on to Western Europe in Roman Latin translations. Language which Westren Europe was originally speaking.
University is indigenous Western Christian invention, further development of cathedral school. It did not existed before. Not even in Rome or Byzantium.
Hospitals in Europe were likewise originally institutions attached to churches or monasteries. They were religious communities. Nothing to do with Islam. Word itself comes from Latin "hospes" -words "host", "hospitality", "hotel" came from same origin. Early Christian "hospitals" were simply guest houses, inns, shelters for travellers run by church authorities or monks.
Sanitation existed in major cities in Spain, Italy and France long before Mohamed was born.
There are many things which were introduced to Europe by Arabs from the East, among them Arabic numbers (which are in fact Indian), latin sails, rice and cotton. But university, hospital and sanitation are not among them.
Joined Apr 2010
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Slovakia
Concept of absolutist monarchy was not developed in post Roman Europe before 17th ct. That is basically beginning of modern era. It hardly could have been influenced by Arabs.
Hygiene didn't rank high among the Middle Agers. A person could be charged by the Inquisition of heresy for taking regular baths since according to the Bible clean people don't need to bath. According to Herodotus the Egyptians bathed a lot in ancient times and so did the Arabs from the Muslim Empire but this means they weren't the first. To which extent they might have influenced Europe after the Romans I don't know, some people point out that the places in Europe where they were present are more keen of cleansing.
Joined Apr 2010
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Last edited:
One general remark:
It is true that post Roman Europeans adopted some things from Arabs. However in general Islam and Arabs served as barrier between West and East. Traditional communication between Europe and East, but also Africa were severed and blocked by Islam. This included exchange if ideas.
For several centuries Europeans were forced to search new routes to the East because traditional ones were blocked by Arabs and Turks. Either via Russia and then across oceans around Africa. Eventually it led to age of discovery, finding of America and age of colonialism.
It is true that post Roman Europeans adopted some things from Arabs. However in general Islam and Arabs served as barrier between West and East. Traditional communication between Europe and East, but also Africa were severed and blocked by Islam. This included exchange if ideas.
For several centuries Europeans were forced to search new routes to the East because traditional ones were blocked by Arabs and Turks. Either via Russia and then across oceans around Africa. Eventually it led to age of discovery, finding of America and age of colonialism.
Joined Apr 2010
16,754 Posts | 20+
Slovakia
I am not questioning higher hygiene level of Islamic civilisations over its Western European medieval counterparts. Question is if Islam influenced Europeans or not.Yôḥānān;1007765 said:
As for sanitation, European cities had it before founding of Islam. Arabs just like Europeans took it from Romans.
And do not forgot that Eastern part of Roman Empire survived long in to Middle Ages.
The question here is if they had it after the Romans and if they had it because of the Romans or the Arabs. The Arabs did not invent sanitation and were not the first to develop hygiene habits. But they might have been a link in the transition for the cultural habits the Goths neglected.
From the article I quoted:
Yes but the Arabs seemed to be closer to western Europe than the surviving Roman Empire.
Joined Feb 2010
598 Posts | 1+
Alabama
Yôḥānān;1007063 said:
There were Martial arts and traditional medicine already in use outside of India and in the West.
The Founding fathers of America were very religious individuals that came here to worship God without the Catholic Church telling them how to worship. They worshiped the God of the Bible and wanted the freedom to do so. They did not want Islam, Catholism, or any other religion to interfere.
What speech, article, book, or any other writing from the Founding fathers gave you the impression that they were anything but believers in the God of the Bible?
Joined Mar 2011
6,304 Posts | 2+
Warsaw, Poland
Thank you very much, Arras. Now that you've pointed it out I see it's very much the same thing. If it's Baroque, then those pear shaped
domes in Kiev came via Poland to Kiev
So it's a case of Western influences on the East this time.Attachments
Joined Apr 2010
16,754 Posts | 20+
Slovakia
Most probably yes. Russian rulers invited many Italian architects and builders who brought Renaissance and Baroque in to Russia to be blended with native traditions.Thank you very much, Arras. Now that you've pointed it out I see it's very much the same thing. If it's Baroque, then those pear shaped
domes in Kiev came via Poland to Kiev
Arabs established the first university in 11th or 12th century or so ... isn't it? Unless you have a source which states otherwise. Also , I'd be interested to know what subjects were taught in the 'indigenous christian universities' you are talking about? Other than the bible-cramming offcourse! I am talking about university that we today know it. An institution for higher studies in Math , Chemistry , Arts , Religion etc ... Arabs established it first...as far as I know.
Again , I was talking about actual hospitals. Where injured people used to be taken and specialized 'doctors' used to be present for their treatment etc ... Here's one interesting quote I found
George Sarton, *Introduction to the History of Science*
Again it depends what you take as "sanitation" ... I am talking about systematic-sanitation in big Urban centers. Personal sanitation of people in the city. Specially drainage systems (not like ours lol) etc etc ....
Well probably you will understand better now. Regarding numbers , its called Arab-Indian numerals...as far as I know ... The "numbers" , specially 0 , were developed in India ..but Arabs took these numbers and developed our modern numerical system. Placing zero at the bottom and then 1,2,3 in sequences..defined different functions of these numbers etc ... but again , this topic is not very clear....
Joined Apr 2010
16,754 Posts | 20+
Slovakia
Last edited:
First of all, which was university you talk about? Name, place, date?
Second even if some Islamic Madrashas were universities (of which there is no academic consensus) European universities had nothing to do with these Islamic schools. Europeans did not adopt university from Arabs.
University of Bologna (1088): Theology (especially Canon -ecclesiastical law) and civil law.
University of Paris (1150): Theology, arts (not to confuse with modern arts, rhetoric was considered art back then for example), medicine and civil law.
Arabs were not first to establish schools for studding Math , Chemistry , Arts , Religion. There were schools which taught these subjects (or some of them at last) already in ancient Greece and you would probably find some schools in other ancient civilizations as well.
And second, first Islamic Madrashas were teaching you guess it: "Quran-cramming offcourse!"
Regardless of what Arabs were doing with injured people or not, European hospitals were not adopted from Arabs. And yes, early European hospitals were places where injured people got treatment from people specializing in it.
That is "belief" of Mr. Sarton. Crusaders were establishing hospitals already when they entered Holly Land. You know where knights Hospitaller got their name from? Hospital of course.
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanitation_in_ancient_Rome"]Sanitation in ancient Rome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
They are Indian in origin regardless of how you call them. They were developed in India from Brahmi numerals starting in 3rd ct. BC -nearly 900 years before Islam. Arabs themselves were calling them "Indian numerals". But that is completely irrelevant to our discussion. Europeans adopted these numbers from Arabs. That is why Europeans call them Arab numerals. Unlike university or hospital.
Joined Aug 2010
17,765 Posts | 23+
Central Macedonia
Democracy came from 500 BC Greece. Greek works were preserved by Arabs AND by Byzantine Greek monks too.
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