Led Zeppelin, plagiarists?

Robespierre · Oct 19, 2012

I submit to you these links as evidence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyvLsutfI5M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zThdTAWQFAQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5uMQDlKn8g

Knowing how much they stole, even the first basic part of Stairway To Heaven, really alters my view of the band. As a teenager I loved their work. Now I see that so much of it is not really their work at all.

I'd rather listen to Black Sabbath. Hell, even Kiss. At least Kiss wrote their own material and when they did a cover gave proper credit.

(Don't know why the link didn't appear in the thread)

Clodius · Oct 19, 2012

Yeah, they were unquestionably plagiarists, and that's pretty sh***y of them. But, tbh, all music is derivative, and what they did with the source material is really good, so I'll still listen to them. I'd definitely rather listen to them than either of the other bands you mention.

Von Ranke · Oct 19, 2012

Listening to Stairway to Heaven backwards is preferrable to anything Kiss ever did.

Aulus Plautius · Oct 19, 2012

Von Ranke said:
Listening to Stairway to Heaven backwards is preferrable to anything Kiss ever did.

KISS truly the most overrated rock band in history. Can't believe it took all this time to find that Led Zeppelin were bunch of frauds though.

Virgil · Oct 19, 2012

Von Ranke said:
Listening to Stairway to Heaven backwards is preferrable to anything Kiss ever did.

I listen to a classic rock station. The only Kiss song they play is Rock and Roll All Night, which I loathe. I cannot think of a single Kiss song I like.

As for Led Zeppelin copying others, I wasn't aware of it and I will try to ignore it. I love that band, they are one of the all time greats. They started the whole metal rock scene I think.

Von Ranke · Oct 19, 2012

Aulus Plautius said:
KISS truly the most overrated rock band in history. Can't believe it took all this time to find that Led Zeppellin were bunch of frauds though.

I agree with AP you about the band who dare not speak their name but in defence of Zep I have to agree with Clodius in that every great band do to an extent build on material that has gone before. The Eagle's great song Hotel California was partly plagiarisation on Jethro Tull's We used to Know who they had supported on a tour.

Von Ranke · Oct 19, 2012

Virgil said:
I listen to a classic rock station. The only Kiss song they play is Rock and Roll All Night, which I loathe. I cannot think of a single Kiss song I like.

As for Led Zeppelin copying others, I wasn't aware of it and I will try to ignore it. I love that band, they are one of the all time greats. They started the whole metal rock scene I think.

You will get no argument from me on that one Virgil. I think Robespierre was being deliberately provocative by mentioning them.

SPERRO · Oct 19, 2012

Von Ranke said:
I agree with AP you about the band who dare not speak their name but in defence of Zep I have to agree with Clodius in that every great band do to an extent build on material that has gone before. The Eagle's great song Hotel California was partly plagiarisation on Jethro Tull's We used to Know who they had supported on a tour.

Any modern Rock band is bound to repeat well worn riffs, its basically all been done before.

Von Ranke · Oct 19, 2012

SPERRO said:
Any modern Rock band is bound to repeat well worn riffs, its basically all been done before.

Absolutely and as there is only a finite amount of riffs available to the musician it should come as no surprise that crossover happens and as you play the guitar yourself Sperro you would know.

SPERRO · Oct 19, 2012

Von Ranke said:
Absolutely and as there is only a finite amount of riffs available to the musician it should come as no surprise that crossover happens and as you play the guitar yourself Sperro you would know.

Without going into great lengths on the foundation of Rock, its all based on rythem and blues and by its nature, revolves around basic principles (if ya na wat I meen

)

Virgil · Oct 19, 2012

What makes me laugh is that Queen lost its case against Vanilla Ice. What was that judge or jury listening to, it couldn't have been the music.

SPERRO · Oct 19, 2012

Virgil said:
What makes me laugh is that Queen lost its case against Vanilla Ice. What was that judge or jury listening to, it couldn't have been the music.

I think there are times when an artist or artists cannot help sounding like an earlier effort. I dont think its done deliberately (in most cases).

Aulus Plautius · Oct 19, 2012

Von Ranke said:
I agree with AP you about the band who dare not speak their name but in defence of Zep I have to agree with Clodius in that every great band do to an extent build on material that has gone before. The Eagle's great song Hotel California was partly plagiarisation on Jethro Tull's We used to Know who they had supported on a tour.

Apparently, Les Zeppelin is not the only band that has been sued for Plagiarism.

Deep Purple (Noooo..not Smoke on the Water...unfortunately yes)

Andrew LLoyd Weber

Mettalica

Black Eyed Peas (If anyone calls them a rock band)

I take back my comment on calling Led Zeppelin frauds. I remember reading that rock and roll music is basically made up of three cords. I'll have to find the video where some band plays a number of famous rock hits playing the same three cords over and over again. Of course, it would explain why a number of songs sound similar.

KISS still stinks though.

http://www.cracked.com/article_18500_the-5-most-famous-musicians-who-are-thieving-bastards.html

Virgil · Oct 19, 2012

SPERRO said:
I think there are times when an artist or artists cannot help sounding like an earlier effort. I dont think its done deliberately (in most cases).

I agree with you, but in the Under Pressure instance there was a pretty much identical base part and an identical set of piano chords. This was not a coincidence.

SPERRO · Oct 19, 2012

Virgil said:
I agree with you, but in the Under Pressure instance there was a pretty much identical base part and an identical set of piano chords. This was not a coincidence.

Agree and see your point, it sounds blatent.

Robespierre · Oct 19, 2012

A lot of bands sound like other bands. That's not what Led Zeppelin did, though. They blatantly stole from other artists and when confronted with legal action they did everything they could to not own up to their responsibility.

I would rather listen to the musicians who actually wrote the music in the first place than Led Zeppelin. Besides, Robert Plant sounds like Adam Sandler. Or the other way around. Either way it's not a compliment by any means.

Saying there's a certain amount of riffs ignores the facts. There are only so much a guitar can do; however, it's possible to copy a riff completely---which is what Zeppelin did.

KISS sucking is subjective. Led Zeppelin plagiarizing is a fact. I'd rather see a band who puts on a good live show than watch an over glorified cover band, one that doesn't give credit for the songs they are covering.

As for the claim that many rock bands steal from others. It's true. But that's not a valid excuse. There's a lot of rapists out there. That doesn't mean that the individual rapist is ok.

Black Dog · Oct 19, 2012

Listening to Stairway to Heaven backwards is preferrable to anything Kiss ever did.

Amen to that.

Jimmy Page told me that the reason they claimed to have written some songs off the first 2 albums was because if people saw a ton of old blues songs, they wouldn't listen to the album. LZ came along at the end of the British Blues boom, remember: no-one wanted more of the same. The British press gave them a very hard time at first.

And, to be fair, their songs were often considerable re-workings. Yes, "The Lemon Song" was a reworking of "Killing Floor". It uses the same riff, really, just slowed down a lot. "How Many more times" was the old blues song "the hunter", but a very different piece of music.

Look into the subject close enough, and one blues song often forms the basis of another. Lyrics and tunes were borrowed all the time: just like with folk music.

The "stairway" clip is only superficially like Zeppelin's. Zeppelin's has a 3 note descending bass note (4th string on a guitar) with a 3 note ascending treble note (high E string) happening at the same time. And it's in the key of A minor.

The clip didn't have the ascending treble notes, and there were 4 descending bass notes, and it was in a much lower key.

And one has to take the rest of the song into consideration.

I have heard tapes from Headley Grange (where LZ IV was recorded), and I can tell you that the song was pieced together from ideas Page had during the recording of LZ III, but it came together when Page and Bonham were experimenting.

None of which undermines Zeppelin's achievement. If they were just another blues band, they'd have disappeared as "The New Yardbirds" back in 1968. But they weren't: they mixed blues, folk, west coast American and many other influences, including the notion of dynamics within a song.

From old stuff, they managed to make something new.

It is frequently claimed that Procul Harem's "Whiter Shade of pale" organ piece is J.S.Bach's "Air on a G string", but it isn't. Ask any pianist.

bartieboy · Oct 19, 2012

I like dazed and confused...

I suppose that in the musical business there is a fine line between inspiration and plagiarism

Von Ranke · Oct 19, 2012

Black Dog said:
Amen to that.

Jimmy Page told me that the reason they claimed to have written some songs off the first 2 albums was because if people saw a ton of old blues songs, they wouldn't listen to the album. LZ came along at the end of the British Blues boom, remember: no-one wanted more of the same. The British press gave them a very hard time at first.

And, to be fair, their songs were often considerable re-workings. Yes, "The Lemon Song" was a reworking of "Killing Floor". It uses the same riff, really, just slowed down a lot. "How Many more times" was the old blues song "the hunter", but a very different piece of music.

Look into the subject close enough, and one blues song often forms the basis of another. Lyrics and tunes were borrowed all the time: just like with folk music.

The "stairway" clip is only superficially like Zeppelin's. Zeppelin's has a 3 note descending bass note (4th string on a guitar) with a 3 note ascending treble note (high E string) happening at the same time. And it's in the key of A minor.

The clip didn't have the ascending treble notes, and there were 4 descending bass notes, and it was in a much lower key.

And one has to take the rest of the song into consideration.

I have heard tapes from Headley Grange (where LZ IV was recorded), and I can tell you that the song was pieced together from ideas Page had during the recording of LZ III, but it came together when Page and Bonham were experimenting.

None of which undermines Zeppelin's achievement. If they were just another blues band, they'd have disappeared as "The New Yardbirds" back in 1968. But they weren't: they mixed blues, folk, west coast American and many other influences, including the notion of dynamics within a song.

From old stuff, they managed to make something new.

It is frequently claimed that Procul Harem's "Whiter Shade of pale" organ piece is J.S.Bach's "Air on a G string", but it isn't. Ask any pianist.

Great post Black Dog and written by someone who clearly is a musician and understands these things. All I can say to a man who has met and conversed with the great Jimmy Page is we are not worthy.

Virgil · Oct 19, 2012

Black Dog said:
Amen to that.

Jimmy Page told me that the reason they claimed to have written some songs off the first 2 albums was because if people saw a ton of old blues songs, they wouldn't listen to the album. LZ came along at the end of the British Blues boom, remember: no-one wanted more of the same. The British press gave them a very hard time at first.

And, to be fair, their songs were often considerable re-workings. Yes, "The Lemon Song" was a reworking of "Killing Floor". It uses the same riff, really, just slowed down a lot. "How Many more times" was the old blues song "the hunter", but a very different piece of music.

Look into the subject close enough, and one blues song often forms the basis of another. Lyrics and tunes were borrowed all the time: just like with folk music.

The "stairway" clip is only superficially like Zeppelin's. Zeppelin's has a 3 note descending bass note (4th string on a guitar) with a 3 note ascending treble note (high E string) happening at the same time. And it's in the key of A minor.

The clip didn't have the ascending treble notes, and there were 4 descending bass notes, and it was in a much lower key.

And one has to take the rest of the song into consideration.

I have heard tapes from Headley Grange (where LZ IV was recorded), and I can tell you that the song was pieced together from ideas Page had during the recording of LZ III, but it came together when Page and Bonham were experimenting.

None of which undermines Zeppelin's achievement. If they were just another blues band, they'd have disappeared as "The New Yardbirds" back in 1968. But they weren't: they mixed blues, folk, west coast American and many other influences, including the notion of dynamics within a song.

From old stuff, they managed to make something new.

It is frequently claimed that Procul Harem's "Whiter Shade of pale" organ piece is J.S.Bach's "Air on a G string", but it isn't. Ask any pianist.

Thank you for saving what I would have kept anyway. I did not need a rationalization of why I love Zeppelin, but will accept it just the same.

Search

Search

Led Zeppelin, plagiarists?

Robespierre

Clodius

Von Ranke

Aulus Plautius

Virgil

Von Ranke

Von Ranke

SPERRO

Von Ranke

SPERRO

Virgil

SPERRO

Aulus Plautius

Virgil

SPERRO

Robespierre

Black Dog

bartieboy

Von Ranke

Virgil

More History Discussions

Recent History Discussions

Trending History Discussions