My Top 10 Greatest Western Military Commander of all time

TheBlackPrince · May 28, 2025

Like Offspring said, the top 5 is pretty good. Bottom 5 could be better though.

Grey445 · May 28, 2025

Emil said:
Yeah, Turenne and Eugène instead of Frederick, Marlborough or Gustav.

Fredrick was better man than all of them you mentioned

Emil · May 28, 2025

Grey445 said:
Fredrick was better man than all of them you mentioned

Better than Turenne? No way.

TheBlackPrince · May 28, 2025

Frederick maybe I'd put over Gustavus. Maybe.

Grey445 · May 28, 2025

TheBlackPrince said:
Like Offspring said, the top 5 is pretty good. Bottom 5 could be better though.

Regarding that First line
It's generally good for everyone

TheMilitaryHistoryAddict · May 28, 2025

No Subutai? Wow, i'd swap Churchill for him, Churchill is around top 15 ish.

Grey445 · May 28, 2025

TheMilitaryHistoryAddict said:
No Subutai? Wow, i'd swap Churchill for him, Churchill is around top 15 ish.

Western ?

TheMilitaryHistoryAddict · May 28, 2025

Emil said:
Replace Scipio with Pompeius and it's fine

Do you think Pompey has better victories than Ilipa and Zama?

Emil · May 28, 2025

TheMilitaryHistoryAddict said:
Do you think Pompey has better victories than Ilipa and Zama?

Better than Zama? Yeah. Better than Ilipa? No. But Pompeius was better than Scipio in other aspects of warfare such as operations, logistics, probably strategy too. Overall, he also faced better opponents, Mithridates VI and Sertorius surely beat whoever Scipio faced in Spain. He also faced Caesar on a more equal situation than Scipio who was surely advantaged over Hannibal. As a tactician, he wasn't much weaker than Scipio anyway, he's just much more underrated in that.

Grey445 · May 28, 2025

Emil said:
Better than Zama? Yeah. Better than Ilipa? No. But Pompeius was better than Scipio in other aspects of warfare such as operations, logistics, probably strategy too. Overall, he also faced better opponents, Mithridates VI and Sertorius surely beat whoever Scipio faced in Spain. He also faced Caesar on a more equal situation than Scipio who was surely advantaged over Hannibal. As a tactician, he wasn't much weaker than Scipio anyway, he's just much more underrated in that.

As a tactician i would put scipio ahead

Emil · May 28, 2025

Grey445 said:
As a tactician i would put scipio ahead

Me too, not so far ahead, i mean.

Emil · May 28, 2025

I mean, Scipio is like top 5 tacticians in history.

TheMilitaryHistoryAddict · May 28, 2025

Emil said:
Better than Zama? Yeah. Better than Ilipa? No. But Pompeius was better than Scipio in other aspects of warfare such as operations, logistics, probably strategy too. Overall, he also faced better opponents, Mithridates VI and Sertorius surely beat whoever Scipio faced in Spain. He also faced Caesar on a more equal situation than Scipio who was surely advantaged over Hannibal. As a tactician, he wasn't much weaker than Scipio anyway, he's just much more underrated in that.

Yeah often when i hear him discussed he's only talked about as the guy who stole crassus credit for bringing down spartacus or the guy who lost at pharsalus but his career is definitely underrated that's for sure, he was a first class strategist who had Caeser cornered plenty of times, a great general who unfortunately fought against an exceptional one.

Grey445 · May 28, 2025

Emil said:
I mean, Scipio is like top 5 tacticians in history.

Based on pure tactics if you have to rate
Oda nobunaga
Shivaji
Belisarius
Skanderbeg
How would you go ?

Emil · May 28, 2025

TheMilitaryHistoryAddict said:
Yeah often when i hear him discussed he's only talked about as the guy who stole crassus credit for bringing down spartacus or the guy who lost at pharsalus but his career is definitely underrated that's for sure, he was a first class strategist who had Caeser cornered plenty of times, a great general who unfortunately fought against an exceptional one.

Well, his early career is quite crazy. He was destroying Roman armies like nothing. Above all, he was a great ambusher. He destroyed Roman armies in Italy, Perpenna in Spain, Mithridates VI and the Caucasus Albanians all through some absolutely brilliant ambushes. He also attempted to ambush Marcus Antonius. His victory at Dyrrachium was also brilliant. After Lauron, which was really the only bad moment in his career, he contended well with Sertorius, who was one of the best generals in Roman history, and coordinated with Metellus to bring him down. At Pharsalus, his tactics made sense honestly.

TheMilitaryHistoryAddict · May 28, 2025

Emil said:
Well, his early career is quite crazy. He was destroying Roman armies like nothing. Above all, he was a great ambusher. He destroyed Roman armies in Italy, Perpenna in Spain, Mithridates VI and the Caucasus Albanians all through some absolutely brilliant ambushes. He also attempted to ambush Marcus Antonius. His victory at Dyrrachium was also brilliant. After Lauron, which was really the only bad moment in his career, he contended well with Sertorius, who was one of the best generals in Roman history, and coordinated with Metellus to bring him down. At Pharsalus, his tactics made sense honestly.

Which is so tragic that Pompey and Caeser would end up enemies, imagine such a duo of Pompey and Caeser against the Parthian Empire.

Offspring · May 28, 2025

TheMilitaryHistoryAddict said:
Yeah often when i hear him discussed he's only talked about as the guy who stole crassus credit for bringing down spartacus or the guy who lost at pharsalus but his career is definitely underrated that's for sure, he was a first class strategist who had Caeser cornered plenty of times, a great general who unfortunately fought against an exceptional one.

Whenever the Spartacus thing is brought up, I feel the need to mention this:

Plutarch said:
Crassus had written to the senate that they must summon Lucullus13 from Thrace and Pompey from Spain, but he was sorry now that he had done so, and was eager to bring the war to an end before those generals came. He knew that the success would be ascribed to the one who came up with assistance, and not to himself.

Marshall Turenne · May 28, 2025

Grey445 said:
Fredrick was better man than all of them you mentioned

You vastly underestimate Turenne.

Samuraistuff03 · May 28, 2025

TheBlackPrince said:
Frederick maybe I'd put over Gustavus. Maybe.

Nuh uh

TheMilitaryHistoryAddict · May 28, 2025

Marshall Turenne said:
You vastly underestimate Turenne.

I think Frederick is slightly overrated while Turenne is underrated, as capable as he was as a tactician, his stubbornness caused a 7 years war that drained Prussia of so much of it's manpower and ruined Prussia's economy for decades. So much so that Napoleon humiliated their armies and they were never the same as a fighting force until 1870.

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My Top 10 Greatest Western Military Commander of all time

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