Were there any real Raider Tribes or 'predatory' cultures

FrankLeeDeRainged · May 6, 2014

'Nother weird question for you. Most popular dystopian stories, post-apocalyptic computer games and movies feature raiders. Mad-Max style loonies who grow nothing, make nothing and only survive by banditry (until the narrative’s protagonist arrives anyway).

So where does this 'idea' come from? It's seems pretty unfeasible to me but history is long and diverse and my understanding of it patchy. So can anyone give me examples of cultures or tribes that made this... lifestyle work? 17th C pirates or Asian horse tribes? Anyone anywhere who made a go of this strategy, or made it last for more than a generation anyway.

Any suggestions gratefully recieved.

Tairusiano · May 6, 2014

Well it's hard to compare with movie characters,but some indigenous tribes of south america adopted a predatory culture the Mbayá-Guaikuru of which I am a descendant after the adoption of the horse developed a culture based on attacks and looting(and capture of slaves) against the sedentary peoples of the region, Guarani Indians, Guaná, Spanish and Portuguese on a smaller scale.
this culture of attacks evolve with time for a culture of domain like lords and vassals, where the clans and tribes of Guaicurus dominate other tribes protecting them from attacks and raids.

Other people were Mundurukus from amazon in their religion they believed that heads of human beings, possessed magical powers, that made these people undertook great expeditions, of hunting heads
these expedition which could take the form of great military expeditions with hundreds or thousands of warriors where the only goal was getting heads and captives.
I hope I have answered your question.

Domhnall Balloch · May 6, 2014

A lot of smaller nomadic tribes would qualify, but they're not really 'civilisations' as such and many have been little more than extended wandering families. Some Highlanders like the Macdonalds of Glencoe went this way in the Linn nan Creach, but that was a relatively short period of time in the midst of general local anarchy. It's a very hard strategy to make work as it entails constant mobility, something that requires a vast amount of room, and entails massive casualties. The women are going to be constantly pregnant or suckling and life expectancy will be in the low twenties. Civilisations that needed to do it more often than not simply died, as it was desperation-point.

Belisarius · May 6, 2014

The nomadic tribal confederations of Central and East Asia have been considered predatory by their sedentary/civilised neighbours, from the Scythians to the Mongols.

northorsouth · May 6, 2014

Saxons,Vikings,the most of germanic tribes,some Mediterranean pirates in ionian-aegean sea, many steppe tribes ,mostly everyone before civilization,sea people, general the pirate cultures are raiders.

FrankLeeDeRainged · May 6, 2014

The 'Mongol-type' Asians were all I could come up with on my own, but didn't they keep livestock? So they must have raided to supplement their lifestyle?....

My own culture of the Anglo-Scottish border region was infamous for raiders known as Border Rievers who stole one another's cattle when ever the circumstances allowed. But they kept cattle (no point in stealing them if you didn't have the wherewithall to keep them, no?) So again a case of 'supplemental' raider culture. I wonder if it's possible the Rievers got their proclivity from Europe's most famous 'raiders' the Vikings, who were big in that part of the world. And even I know the Vikings were somewhat unfairly remembered for the .... and pillage stuff and less often remembered as traders and craftsmen.

But Tairusiano give me my first proper raider culture examples. I was wondering whether it was a position that a tribe or culture could fall into for a brief period then either improve their situation or just die off altogether.

Tercios Espanoles · May 6, 2014

I can't think of a single entirely parasitic culture.

Tairusiano · May 6, 2014

FrankLeeDeRainged said:
I was wondering whether it was a position that a tribe or culture could fall into for a brief period then either improve their situation or just die off altogether.

It's hard to have any certainty, but if we analyze the conquest of the Americas, was for the natives as an apocalyptic like period disease, invasions by different people with more advanced technology,most Native American nations simply collapsed what remained was conquered, or even regressed technologically.
but some have adapted, like the Guaikurus, they were he lived on fishing, but with the European invasion, they adjusted to this new world, the horse being the major force of change. which allowed to travel great distances, and provided the necessary advantage to war against peoples neighbors, they had lost their livelihoods their land, were a people who had nothing to lose, and the war became his way of life, and live from oppression of other people their way.

Now the Mundurukú probably happened something similar but with people around, large chiefdoms from amazon disappeared after the arrival of Europeans, the tribes that remained, regressed socially, but not the Munduruku, they possessed an excellent organization an advanced agriculture a standing army (divided i two divisions the red and white)and a religion although it was quite strange guided and united them, its expansion from that point was natural and that was what happened they created an independent nation in the amazon region the Mundurukania.

zincwarrior · May 6, 2014

FrankLeeDeRainged said:
'Nother weird question for you. Most popular dystopian stories, post-apocalyptic computer games and movies feature raiders. Mad-Max style loonies who grow nothing, make nothing and only survive by banditry (until the narrative’s protagonist arrives anyway).

So where does this 'idea' come from? It's seems pretty unfeasible to me but history is long and diverse and my understanding of it patchy. So can anyone give me examples of cultures or tribes that made this... lifestyle work? 17th C pirates or Asian horse tribes? Anyone anywhere who made a go of this strategy, or made it last for more than a generation anyway.

Any suggestions gratefully recieved.

Imperial Rome.
The Mongols
Pirates.

Government employees (I kid I kid).

Tripwire · May 6, 2014

Tairusiano said:
Well it's hard to compare with movie characters,but some indigenous tribes of south america adopted a predatory culture the Mbayá-Guaikuru of which I am a descendant after the adoption of the horse developed a culture based on attacks and looting(and capture of slaves) against the sedentary peoples of the region, Guarani Indians, Guaná, Spanish and Portuguese on a smaller scale.

Interesting, I'd never heard of this tribe! Sounds like a South American version of the Comanche, who adopted a similar raiding lifestyle after the introduction of the horse, and were for a time one of the few tribes that were able to expand and control more territory after contact with Europeans than they had previously.

Domhnall Balloch · May 7, 2014

To what extent can vikings count as a culture? I know it was a job, but those viking did take territory which they used purely as a base for other raids and they must've had their own ethos and way of life after years if not decades in each other's company away from home.

Tairusiano · May 7, 2014

Tripwire said:
Interesting, I'd never heard of this tribe! Sounds like a South American version of the Comanche, who adopted a similar raiding lifestyle after the introduction of the horse, and were for a time one of the few tribes that were able to expand and control more territory after contact with Europeans than they had previously.

yes they have their similarities
tribe that remained of which I belong, the kadiwéu not receive as much media exposure as the other tribes of Brazil.

YouLoveMeYouKnowIt · May 7, 2014

Mongols and steppe nomads to China's north. Historically, as close to a parasitic "civilization" as you can get. Mass destruction, banditry, and retardation of civilization.

Domhnall Balloch · May 7, 2014

That's a little harsh of the Mongols. The lesser tribes and wandering-families, certainly, but the Mongols had a civilisation of their own. It just moved.

YouLoveMeYouKnowIt · May 7, 2014

Domhnall Balloch said:
That's a little harsh of the Mongols. The lesser tribes and wandering-families, certainly, but the Mongols had a civilisation of their own. It just moved.

While it would be unfair to consider "Mongols" and "steppe folks north of China" as one monolithic block of people, civilization would have been done a huge favour had they not existed.

Domhnall Balloch · May 7, 2014

I'm tempted to agree with you when it comes to medieval Mongols because I hate the way people try to rehabilitate their empire by talking about how it was good for art and trade while ignoring the fact it killed hundreds of millions of people. But they did have a civilisation at the end of the day, no matter what they did with it. They weren't parasitic.

YouLoveMeYouKnowIt · May 7, 2014

Domhnall Balloch said:
I'm tempted to agree with you when it comes to medieval Mongols because I hate the way people try to rehabilitate their empire by talking about how it was good for art and trade while ignoring the fact it killed hundreds of millions of people. But they did have a civilisation at the end of the day, no matter what they did with it. They weren't parasitic.

While I agree they are a civilization, due to having a distinct culture, form of government, official writing system, etc... they were from from civilized. If we talk about being "parasitic" on a level so small you have include people like pirates and bandits, then no they are not parasitic. But we should compare them with others on a higher level, a "civilization" level, to be fair. Compared to their victims - Song dynasty, Slavs, Poles, Koreans, Viets, etc... they were pretty close.

How could we define being parasitic? What would be the requirement to be branded as a parasitic culture? I would say a one-sided relationship. The side wanting to gain, is taking advantage of, and receiving benefits while not reciprocating and is unwanted is parasitic. The Mongols have things to gain by prying things away from the Song, Arabs, Slavs, Poles, etc... the same could not be said about the other way around. By conquering their victims, the Mongols would gain and adapt. By being conquered, the victims would suffer catastrophic deaths, displacement, loss of science and technology, etc... The Chinese have had one-sided relationships with the steppe people for centuries before and after the Mongol invasions.

jehosafats · May 10, 2014

They still exist. The Yanomami of the Amazon come to mind.

Tairusiano · May 11, 2014

jehosafats said:
They still exist. The Yanomami of the Amazon come to mind.

The Yanomami violence has never been proven(not the way Chagnon expects it to be), their society has always been isolated, and their wars with the tribes of Arawak speakers in the south was never successful, I am not advocating the Yanomami, but they are not the war machine that Chagnon loves to preach.
in fact today the Yanomami are prey in the hands of the miners.

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Were there any real Raider Tribes or 'predatory' cultures

FrankLeeDeRainged

Tairusiano

Domhnall Balloch

Belisarius

northorsouth

FrankLeeDeRainged

Tercios Espanoles

Tairusiano

zincwarrior

Tripwire

Domhnall Balloch

Tairusiano

YouLoveMeYouKnowIt

Domhnall Balloch

YouLoveMeYouKnowIt

Domhnall Balloch

YouLoveMeYouKnowIt

jehosafats

Tairusiano

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