Wars with clear-cut good guys and bad guys?

WhatAnArtist · Oct 2, 2016

Some people are fond of saying that "history is written by the victor" and that every war has two sides to it, and while that's true, that also doesn't mean that both sides are justified. Still, this isn't the case for the vast majority of wars throughout human history. In fact, at the moment the only one I can think of that had an obvious 'good' side and an obvious 'bad' side is the Second World War. I mean, there's a reason why the Nazis are basically synonymous with mustache-twirling super villains, cause they sort of were (that's obviously an exaggeration, but by and large the Nazis were obviously far more bad than they were good on any definable measure). Although I'd be remiss if I didn't mention Japan in the Second World War, which was sort of even worse in some ways. That war just really seemed to bring out the worst in some nations.

In fact that sharp moral divide in the Second World War is often used by some people when explaining the differences between the two World Wars; the First World War had no good guys or bad guys, and the Second World War most certainly did.

What are some other wars with clear-cut good guys and bad guys? I'm tempted to say every single war against the Mongols, but I don't really know enough about them to say this with confidence.

Lord Oda Nobunaga · Oct 2, 2016

Most modern wars because that is when the use of war propaganda really flourished.

aggienation · Oct 3, 2016

Are We the Baddies?

Matthew Amt · Oct 3, 2016

WhatAnArtist said:
Some people are fond of saying that "history is written by the victor"

Yeah, they are, but these days it's a ridiculous thing to say. Most of the "history" written these days is either by the losers, or by winners who for some reason would prefer to be the losers.

Of course "good guys and bad guys" is completely subjective, so you might get the same list from opposite sides. Some people in the American South are certain that the Confederates in the American Civil War were the good guys, for instance. Try convincing Argentina that they were the bad guys in the Falklands.

Hmm, I was about to make a little list, but re-reading my last paragraph, practically EVERY war in history could be on it! After all, even the most heinous aggressors in history were generally pretty sure they were RIGHT, eh?

Matthew

Larrey · Oct 3, 2016

The concept of Just Wars clearly is not obsolete — despite all inherent problems in the concept.

War itself has lost most of its profound historical connotations of Glory of course. It no longer can even remotely begin to justify a war even a little. Modern wars are not glorious. They tend to come across as matters of justified warfare out of perceived necessity.

Naomasa298 · Oct 3, 2016

I'd say the Falklands War and Gulf War I had pretty clear cut "right" and "wrong" sides. Also the British intervention in Sierra Leone.

Chlodio · Oct 3, 2016

Matthew Amt said:
Most of the "history" written these days is either by the losers...

Yes, being on the losing side of a war is a good way to find yourself unemployed afterwards with nothing else to do except write books about why you lost, how it wasn't your fault, etc. Most American Civil War memoirs were written by Confederates. Most Union leaders were either dead (Lincoln) or had better things to do with their lives. Several WW2 German generals also wrote memoirs explaining how it wasn't their fault.

Tuthmosis III · Oct 3, 2016

aggienation said:
Are We the Baddies?

That's hilarious.

Rodger · Oct 3, 2016

There will never be 100% agreement, because most "bad guys" will consider their cause good (for some reason, the group session with all the bad guys in an AA setting at the start of Wreck It Ralph comes to mind). I would say the Mongol and Hun attacks give about as can be clear cut good guy and bad guy scenario.

Domnall Ballach · Oct 3, 2016

Western Isles resistance to Scottish colonialism. Their leaders may have been unmitigated sociopaths, but the common people to be executed just wanted to live in peace. They were perfectly entitled to resist their 'punishment,' and the Scots no right to try and wipe them out.

delta1 · Oct 3, 2016

The Finnish-Soviet War is a good example.

The Rwandan Civil War of 1994 had obvious good guys and bad guys, though some of the good guys have since gone bad.

The morality of Indo-Pakistani relations are usually cloudy, but in 1971, India was clearly the good guy and Pakistan was clearly the bad guy.

Scaeva · Oct 3, 2016

The American Civil War.

The Confederate States of America was as richly deserving of ending up in history's rubbish dump as Nazi Germany.

grey fox · Oct 3, 2016

WhatAnArtist, you might like my thread "World War 1-who was right, the Allies or the Central Powers?"

Joe Freeman · Oct 3, 2016

All the wars the USA fought... Coincidentally, they were always the good guys.

Aineias Taktikos · Oct 4, 2016

While one side of WWII, the Axis Powers, certainly were the aggressors, and if there ever was a justified war it certainly was the war against their aggression and tyranny. However, that does not mean that the Allied Powers always conducted themselves appropriately according to the laws of war.

Tulius · Oct 4, 2016

Joe Freeman said:
All the wars the USA fought... Coincidentally, they were always the good guys.

That really seems an ironic statement.

Aineias Taktikos said:
While one side of WWII, the Axis Powers, certainly were the aggressors, and if there ever was a justified war it certainly was the war against their aggression and tyranny. However, that does not mean that the Allied Powers always conducted themselves appropriately according to the laws of war.

Agreed. During the course of a war it is important for a countries mobilization to put the things in black and white. Naturally than we will find shades of gray.

But I think that if any war in history is more close to the manicheist dichotomy good guys/bad guys, is probably WWII.

Domnall Ballach · Oct 4, 2016

The Rwandan Civil War of 1994 had obvious good guys and bad guys, though some of the good guys have since gone bad

The same is true, I'd argue, of the Tajik civil war, though there I'm on shakier ground.

rvsakhadeo · Oct 4, 2016

I do not think that any war is purely fought between baddies and goodies or both sides goodies. It has been well said that ' The Truth is the First Casualty in a War ! '

macon · Oct 4, 2016

War against ISIS. ISIS are pure evil.

Their opponents are no angels but ISIS or ISIL or DAESH are the clearest case of bad guys after nazis. Do you remember how Saddam and Moamer were satanized by western medias? Is it not strange that ISIS are less satanized and there is a common apathic feeling that we can't do much? Saddam and Moamer and Bashar were less clear case of evil than theocratic mass murderers.

I'm sure that USA are going nuts in their dealing with ISIS. The only goal of such ........ politics (with all the bs and lying) I can think of is to make EU's and USA's population poorer in average.

Shtajerc · Oct 4, 2016

Medieval and early modern period Turkish raids in SE and Central Europe.

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Wars with clear-cut good guys and bad guys?

WhatAnArtist

Lord Oda Nobunaga

aggienation

Matthew Amt

Larrey

Naomasa298

Chlodio

Tuthmosis III

Rodger

Domnall Ballach

delta1

Scaeva

grey fox

Joe Freeman

Aineias Taktikos

Tulius

Domnall Ballach

rvsakhadeo

macon

Shtajerc

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