When Romans kidnapped women ...

The legend is still celebrated today. Carrying the bride over the threshold is a Roman custom pereserved by christianity that descends from this very event. The Romans seemed very certain about it despite the hazy historical record. So much so that they introduced the ritual in the first place. As to how accurate the Roman account is, I'm unable to say, but something of that kind may well have happened. The problem is that by the time it got written down, it had become an oral myth and so you'd have to take it with a pinch of salt.

A quaint 1961 movie, starring Roger Moore (!) as Romulus was made depicting this even:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyM2FeGonYo]Romulus & the Sabines - TRAILER - Roger Moore[/ame]

Dionysius of Halicarnassus (II,31) :
"As regards the reason for the seizing of the virgins, some ascribe it to a scarcity of women, others to the seeking of pretext of war; but those who give the most plausible account - and with them I agree - attribute it to the design of contracting an alliance with the neighbouring cities, founded on affinity".
In fact, the three reasons mentioned by Dionysius are closely tied, and the .... of the Sabine women can be seen as one of the multiple forms of exchange in the offerings and counter-offerings used in ancient history, as well as in "primitive" societies.

caldrail said:

The legend is still celebrated today. Carrying the bride over the threshold is a Roman custom pereserved by christianity that descends from this very event. The Romans seemed very certain about it despite the hazy historical record. So much so that they introduced the ritual in the first place.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure that the "bride over the threshold" custom descends from this event. I think it's related to the threshold God worship.

Stealing a .... is an ancient custom in some peoples. Usually the aim is to marry her and to get in relation with her family, to put them before a fait accompli. In Bulgaria (and also Serbia, Croatia, other countries, I guess) usually it happened up to the middle of the 19-th century, if the family of the .... does not agree with some guy to marry her. It mostly happened when the .... wants the guy, too, rarely against her own will.

So the guy just takes several friends, they get in the night in her home (usually she is waiting for them ) ), "steal" her end... the wedding is on some of the next days ) (Someone might die, however, if the brothers or other relatives decide to fight... or at least to be beaten )

It i s an ancient custom, it is mentioned in the X century in some letters between the Pope and the Bulgarian king.

I thing there are two reasons for the Romans to do this massively - desire to enter in closer union with other local peoples or simply, by some reason, lack of women in the society.

May be just some of them wanted to take ......, but the majority followed them...

It was a custom of some early Turkish tribes, and was also practiced by the Picts (the latter were said to have been a 'tribe' of bachelor warriors until they stole some women from the Irish).

Diviacus said:

"
I'm not sure that the "bride over the threshold" custom descends from this event. I think it's related to the threshold God worship.

Click to expand...

The ritual celebrates the '.... of the Sabines', seen as an important cultural milestone in the establishment of Rome. That's what the Romans tell us, and their rituals - even the pagan ones - have survived to this via the christian church which was after all allowed to prosper with ROman patronage. I'll go further. Exchanging rings at a wedding? That's pure pagan Rome as well.

I don't where you get this 'threshold God worship' thing from. It sounds rather like revisionist christianity to me and not historical at all. Traditionally I don't see any connection between carrying a bride over the threshold and confirmation of belief - the christians already have confirmation procedures (it's called baptism).

The christian movement in America is often responsible for revisionist ideas that foist alternative explainations for traditional rituals in order to seperate them from their pagan origin and thus intellectually sanctify the image of Christ. Not so long ago a street preacher here in Britain (my home town in fact) declared that "Jesus led a perfect life". Yeah? I had no idea crucifixion as a condemned criminal was an ideal way to go, but then, the idea is to recreate the image of Jesus as divine. The important point here is that these people are very selective about history and do not shy from outright fiction in worst cases.

But personality cults aside, the christian church preserves a great deal of Roman traditions - That's nothing unusual, because historically christianity has always rebranded other religions as theirs. The followers of Mithras argued with Roman christians about whose rituals were whose. In the dark ages, churches were often sited on former pagan places of worship as a deliberate policy. Under new management.

The case for celebrating the .... of the Sabines is stronger and has historical support.

caldrail said:

I don't where you get this 'threshold God worship' thing from. It sounds rather like revisionist christianity to me and not historical at all.

Click to expand...

Sorry if I misspoke. My comment had nothing to do with the Christians, but only with the Roman threshold God.

Oh I see. Fair enough. Actually that might have had some significance but if so it was adding a ritual re-enactment in order that Janus, the threshold god, was properly impressed by the newly weds. It still is a celebration of the .... of the Sabines in that case, but done not only as a civic ritual but also one with religious significance for good luck, virility, or whatever. Good point actually.