Are Chulan Kings of Malaysia descendants of the Cholan Dynasty?

[Dreamhunter]

Well, I wud see it as the local regional geopolitics of the time. It was an old power coming into collision with a younger ascending power. A bit like Carthage vs Rome, if one may.

I wud not say that they eliminated any rivals. They did not hv any, becos they had for a long time dominated the SEA region trade. Angkor was never a serious player in SEA maritime trade. Neither was Hindu Mataram on Java. They were both more like agrarian-based economies. It was just Palembang and their vassal-allies in Srivijaya federation. The closest to a rival they had was Buddhist Sailendra, and they did not fight with Sailendra, but rather allied with them, to the point that folks sometimes interchanged their names. A confusion made worse when Samara Thunga of Sailendra married Dewi Tara, daughter of Dharmasetu of Palembang Srivijaya, resulting in what was essentially a dynastic mega-merger of two big SEA powers of the time. Samara Thunga's father, Sang Rama Dhanan Jaya (a.k.a. Dharanindra a.k.a. Maharaja Vishnu) had previously allied with Dharmasetu to invade and subjugate Nagara Sri Dharmaraja (based at Tambralinga aka Ligor) in the Malay Isthmus around 775 AD. Something recorded in the Ligor Inscription. Whether it was a hard conquest, or a peaceful takeover, wud be anyone's guess.

Srivijaya had been around & thriving since late 7th century. They had outlived both Hindu Mataram & co-Buddhist ally Sailendra of Java, with both of whom they actually shared some ancient lineage. It is very much to their credit that they managed to survive for so long, their power centre shifting to Jambi-based Malayu kingdom (also called Dharmasraya, perhaps the dynastic name), Palembang's former co-Srivijaya close ally, in 1088, only going down completely after Javanese Singhasari's Pamalayu Expedition in 1275.

 

[Cheesetorian]

Ha ha it is obvious that you are trolling.
It should be obvious for anyone that the discussion is about the term Chulan and Cholan and not about the term king

Absolutely not. Please don't call me "trolling" simply because I don't want to bandwagon a supposition you want to string along.

I was referring to the gentleman that said the road was named "Chulan King"...why would a street be called Chulan King if 'king' wasn't part of the narrative?

I think you're confused. I'm not saying Chola has no historical connection to Malaysia...I'm saying that the etymology of "Cholan King" might not be related to Chola. LOL. They're two different things.

I could understand for example in many places say in Scotland that have non-Gaelic and non-Germanic name (ie Pictish) and have clear (if they do have parts of the place names with coupled Gaelic and Germanic, because obviously these later on were occupied or been acculturated by Gaels and Germanic speaking folks) historical connection.

But in this case? You have a long past history of Chola and English name somehow converging to create a place name hundreds of years later for no apparent reason? LOL Sounds bogus.

Again, similar sounding words =/= always mean same etymology (ie false etymology).

Cheese.

 

[Cheesetorian]

My previous readings say that Rajendra married a sister of Raja Shah Johan, the defeated ruler of Gangga Negara, named Puteri Sedara Gangga, from which issued a son named Raja Suran Padshah, this Suran/Soran having been another Malay variant of the name Chulan/Cholan.

Now, this Gangga Negara kingdom was centred at a place named Manjung, today located in the state of Perak. The Raja Chulan after which that road Jalan Raja Chulan (Raja Chulan Road) in Kuala Lumpur city centre is named, was a relatively recent prince, lived 1 July 1869 - 10 April 1933. He was a son of the then sultan of Perak state (more or less the modern day successor entity of ancient Gangga Negara), Sultan Abdullah Muhammad Shah.

Jalan Raja Chulan was formerly called Weld Road. It was only renamed Jalan Raja Chulan in 1982. Many roads here, formerly bearing colonial names, hv been renamed after illustrious figures in Malaysian history.

Now, Perak state being the successor realm of Gangga Negara, it is quite possible that there is some residual lineage from the Chola, if that post-battle marriage had really taken place, whether with Rajendra Chola himself, or a close relative of his, like Kulothunga Chola, for instance.

There is on record a Kulothunga Chola BTW, stated as a ruler of Srivijaya, in the Srivijaya regnal geneaolgy. He cud hv been the same Kulothunga, I believe.

Kuala Lumpur is geographically within the state of Selangor, although it is designated as a Federal Territory, with its own jurisdiction independent of Selangor. It is a very young city that first grew out of a mining industry community. Selangor was not invaded by Chola, there was no kingdom there yet in 11th century.

Thank you for clarification. Perhaps the "chulan" in that road name is somehow connected to the Chola kingdom afterall, and perhaps I am wrong.

I just didn't understand why it would have "king" on there...it sounded more Chinese.

Cheese.

 

[Dreamhunter]

Thank you for clarification. Perhaps the "chulan" in that road name is somehow connected to the Chola kingdom afterall, and perhaps I am wrong.

Quite possible, considering the history. It was named after the recent Malay Raja Chulan. But then, he, and his father, cud possibly hv had ancient 11th century Indian Chola lineage, hence the use of that name in his real name, Chulan being a Malay variant of Chola/Cholan.

I just didn't understand why it would have "king" on there...it sounded more Chinese.

LOL. That King was just the English translation for the original Raja, made by Mr. Knapf in his post.

 

[Knapf]

Malay=Jalan Raja Chulan
English=Chulan King Road

The word Chulan is a name so it is the only word I didn't translate. Hope this clears the confusion But I myself don't know if my English translation is really correct. It could also be King Chulan Road.

 

[Dreamhunter]

The Perak prince's name was Raja Chulan. The one who lived 1 July 1869 - 10 April 1933.

So, the road in Kuala Lumpur, formerly called Weld Road, and renamed after him, is now Jalan Raja Chulan. It is right smack bang in Kuala Lumpur city centre.

 

[NIROSHAN]

Casting long shadow upon the history !

CASTING LONG SHADOW UPON THE HISTORY !
Previous PM Dr. Mahathir Mohammad's grandfather, Iskandar was married to Siti Hawa from Johor in 1881 in Penang. His grandfather was brought to Malaya by the "British East India Company" to teach English in the Kedah Royal palace. Mahathir's father, Mohamad bin Iskander was from Penang, an Indian with a Malay mother with the history of ancestors from the South Indian state of Kerala !
Dr.Mahathir Mohamad was born , in Alor Setar,the capital in the state of Kedah in Northern Malaysia.Mahathir Mohamad became the fourth Prime Minister of Malaysia in 1981.
He replaced many Street names which previously featured semblances of "English origins" by those names commemorating Malay historical figures, Malay culture and key politicians in Malaya/Malaysia. The renaming included roads in the core of old Kuala Lumpur. Jalan Raja Chulan (formerly Weld Road) where I guess where the Malaysian headquarters of Stock M arket is situated was renamed in 1982 .Rajah Chula was a member of the Perak Royal family.

 

[SureshNaidu]

No. Raja Chulan is Perak prince of 19th century. He got nothing to do with cholas

 

[Dreamhunter]

That might be so.

But then again, the name Chulan, which is rather close to Cholan, is not quite a typical name among Malay royalty.

So, it's kind of a bit intriguing to me, for his parents to have chosen such a name for their son. Especially in the 19th century to boot, too.